Discussion about the Sermons of Soma Thero

16th December 2003 - Beginning

Hi All,

I do not know all of you, but somehow I got this mail. So cannot keep my moth shut when I see these things. I do not understand the raw things of these discussions exactly. But I will express my points.

Dear Didd

Those who contribute to animal sacrifice (by meat eating) have to careful when making statements that support it. I agree.

Pinwatni badeth thiyenne mas. Ekahanda mas kala bhavana keruwata kamak naha. He said there is no problem of eating meat. He criticized the Mahayanic tradition of living Buddhas

My Point
So if someone said there is no problem of eating meat, why doesn’t he eat the meat of human? Yes some people do so, and why don’t he too. Why can’t he eat his own meat? Why can’t he eat the meat of his father or mother? If there is no problem of eating meat he can eat meet of human also.

He cannot eat his own meat. Because he cannot afford to loose the things belongs to him. It hurts. If he is to eat his mothers’ meat if he is at least an ordinary human he cannot bear the pain of his mother.

So what right he has to say the eating meat of animals is ok. Then what can he say about the pain an animal is getting when it was killed. Animals also have right to live like human and they also feel the pain. I have heard in some religions teachings say that animals are created by the God for human. So why can’t they eat them. Then the question why the God has given the feeling of “Pain” to animal.

When people are trying to justify such things (eating meats) Buddhist has to talk against them. It is not racism. Just talking the visible truth.

Those who criticize Devas may have adverse effects by them What he told was to stand on your own and find yr salvation, without limiting to worshipping Devas.

He said there is no Kataragama deviyo. He said there is no visnu deviyo. He condemned the gods. He challenged the gods. He said we cannot get help from gods. He said not to believe in Astrology.

My Point
Incorrect. As everyone who cannot bear the truth always misinterpret things. What he said was there is no Katharagama Deviyo in Buddhism. There is no Vishnu in Buddhism. He always talked to Buddhists who do things not in Buddhism. According to Buddhism there is a concept of Gods. That is the category, who has done more merits and in a better place. We cannot get help from those. What we can do is give the credit of the merit we do. They get it and bless us. If we are good, if we are with a good heart with pure activities, we can get the better from those blessings.

Astrology is just another science. He did not say not to believe. He said just do not go after that. Astrology is not the only thing decides things of a person.

As a Buddhist you cannot go after Katharagama Deviyo. Because everything mostly depends of what we do. People do not take this and just tell what they want.

First you have to understand what he said. Then only you have to comment. People like you who have not understood the basics of Buddhism and the basics of Soma Theros teachings, always misinterpret things. People who don’t have trust on them selves always go after gods.

Soma Thero always talked to Buddhists and showed their mistakes. When it was done, it is true that he has to talk about other religions also. Cannot help. To protect this noble doctrine he had to do so. If someone doesn’t talk for these things in few years Buddhism will not be there for anyone.

What Soma Thero did was showing the misunderstandings about the Buddhism people had.

Those who support racism may suffer. This is highly controversial. One argument is that if Dutugamunu didn't fight against Tamil "invasion" at that time Buddhism could have been wiped out. (Ex: Afghanistan) Other point is that following those aims (religious or racial clans, family, myself) will distract you from the correct path, hence not becoming "practicing" Buddhist.

He criticized Hindu philosophy. He induced the germ of racism in society. He widened the gap between Buddhists and Hindus. His personal life was totally different. He did not what he preached. Let he be born and protect the Sinhala (so called). We will protect the Buddhist values. Sinhala and Buddhist are two things.
ANYWAY HE DID SOMETHING. THAT I ACCEPT. DOING SOMETHING HAS TO BE DISCUSSED AGAINST DOING THE RIGHT THING

My Point
Yes he did something, and that something affected a lot. So many people who don’t know the real Buddhism and the other people who wanted to buy Buddhists for money to their religions could not bear it. They say that he did something incorrect.

Yes, Sinhala and Buddhism are two things. The Buddhism was not born in Sri Lanka. Lord Buddha was not a Sinhalese. Buddhism is a Universal thing and it belongs to everyone. When it says Sinhala Buddhists some argues that it is racism.

All the above factors are true. But where else you can find pure Buddhism other than with Sri Lankan Sinhalese. Who else protects pure Buddhism other than Sinhalese? No matter Buddhism came from where, the whole world accept that it is a noble doctrine. Having known that we know the Buddhism is not just another religion and when we go deep the noble things in it.

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both natural and spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."
-Albert Einstein

I think you have heard about the above. Albert Einstein is a person accepted by the whole world. Go word by word of his statement.

So such a noble doctrine someone has to protect. Are Indians going to protect it? Americans, Englishman, Muslims, Hindus? Are they going to protect it? No they are not. We have to protect. Sinhalese have to protect it. We have to protect it in an era most of the others are trying to destroy it. So one has to show the things that you cannot get from the other religions to show the things in Buddhism.

The nation to protect Buddhism is Sinhalese. So saying Sinhala Buddhists and taking actions to protect this noble doctrine, you call it racism? You are wrong.

No use of being a labeled Buddhist. We have to protect Pure Therawada Buddhism and have to eliminate the wrong concepts come to it. To do that like Dutugamunu did we have to take actions.

It is not racism, protecting the pure Buddhism for the future and the world. There is nothing wrong with it.

For many Sinhalese Buddhists he was a savior on last two points!
A Buddhist does not belong to a race. He only belongs to the category 'human'

I think I have answered above for this.

We will discuss more when I come on 22nd to SL.

Ashok

17th December 2003 - Reply from asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

I do not know you.

However, what I can say is that Soma Thero and yourselves have not understood the basics of Buddha Teachings. These cannot be spoken by E mails. If you need detail study I may show you why I say with references to Buddhist scripts. I do not want to argue with you and say this is the truth. I can use that time for more benefit.

May read Vasetta sutta (definition of JATHIYA), Maha Samaya Sutta ( who is Visnu), Maha Sihanada Sutta ( who is Sanan kumara OR Skanda Kumara ), Madyamika Darshan / Mula madyamakarika/ Saddarmapundarika (to know separation between Mahayanic way) / Lamkavatara sutta, Amganda sutta on meat eating...to know more.

WITH A PRECONCLUSIVE MIND IT MAY BE DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND CERTAIN SENSITIVE BUT COMPLEX ISSUES ON BUDDHIST WAY

May you protect the SINHALESE BUDDHISTS!!

17th December 2003 - Reply to asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

I also do not know you. But feel that you are also a typical person who runs aways when real questions are made. You are the one who doesn't know basics. Before looking into those Suttas you try to understand the basics.

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read. Those are not the important things.

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

Buddhism never says to pray Gods. It is not that Soma Thero said that there is no Gods. What he said was there are Gods, but they are not the ones with lots of hands and faces like Katharagama and Vishnu. Why don't you understand this. You are the person with preconclusive mind. If you have valid points take them up.

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

All the other religion people things about their religion and protect it. But when Buddhists trying to do it people like you say that it is racism. You say Buddhism is not belong to us. So you want let anyone do anything to that and keep watching till it getting destroyed. That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

If you can answer my things. Also it is true that these cannot be spoken through emails (may be you are making it an excuse). But you and I know that there is no practicle possiblity to meet. Also we can discuss these things through emails.

please do not run away. Come to the points.

17th December 2003 - Reply from asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

Dearest Friend

These are my replies. Thanks for giving me a chance.

I feel that you are a theoretical Buddhist who have not even attempted to on the path. You typically lack in practicality. Basics are taken from the Three baskets. To understand basics you have to understand the core. Existing basics are interpretations and people unknowingly think as basics. Basics though the name applies goes a long way. The basics in Buddhism are the Ariya Attangika magga-Dana/Seela/ Bhavana; Seela/ Samadhi/ Pagna; Sapta visuddhi/ Satara satipattana etc. At the lowest level it can be simplified to pancha seela. Pancha seela too at the narrowest definitions gives a completely different interpretation. On this we can discuss for days and seems no point.. Start going in the said path for some time with prevailing basics then you will find that these basics are wrong

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

You have misunderstood. The concepts of trinity in Hinduism did not exist during Buddha's time. The existing religion was Vedantism more generally it was Brahmanism. It is completely different from today's Hinduism. Read history of Hinduism. During that time the main names relating to the trinity are all in Buddhist scriptures. Buddha never told to go behind them. He said about their existence. There more than enough evidence that there are devas by these said names. Even Shiva, refer to anguttara nikaya where Siva Dev Puth comes and asks questions from Buddha. Buddha said don't go behind them. Clear.

Refer to skanda purana and relationship with king Mahanama and Dutugemunu. You cannot challenge the existence even by name. Let Hindus represent them by many hands/ faces . Why we are worried? If you know the concept fine. But don't challenge even by name because there is research done and most critics have concluded the relation in Buddhist scripts. Lead the life as Buddha said and gods with protect you (which means they can help you!!) Read Metta sutta/ parinibbana sutta on sapta aparihana dharma of Lichchavis.how gods can help you (but they cannot change karma). Read Milinda pragna how dreams may be shown by gods to people of future events. Also you can get things done through gods, it is a special science. SO Without practicising SEELA even monks with Athma Dusti cannot understand certain things. So people go behind them..

Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Same. Try to understand karma. Learn that karma can be changed by you. By your great efforts. It is pointless to pray for triple gem. Go on the path. Niyama dharma is broadly the explanation of the universe. It has nothing to do with what we discussed. Also karma is not the root cause of everything. Karma only fall in the in the explanation of causality. There are certain things call Ahetuka Vipath. Still I feel I am wasting my time with heaps of official work with me

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read.

I have not spoken about jataka stories. Still there are core concepts we can get which is invaluable.

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

If you want to argue, fine. But you will go nowhere without practicing. I have been arguing directly and I have the capacity to do so. There is no problem.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

I have been working in this stream of activities for long time in SL. I know all the in and outs of the Buddhist monks. Don't try to teach me. I have been actively involved in these against churchnism. The strategy to safeguard Buddhism is been changing. Now the Temple of Kandy get many to Robes from the tamil race (ask them if you don't know). We have to have Buddhist monks from this race. Buddhism cannot be owned by any race. Racism is on the verge of collapse (Sinhala Buddhist concept- only correct path is Theravada?? Only saviors of Buddhism are the Sinhala race..?? nonsence. Was dharma asoka a Sinhalese, was dalai lama a Sinhalese? Was Buddha Gosa acharya a Sinhalese? When Buddhism was in extinct thanks to Miyanmar for sending Sangha to re-establish Buddhism). Race -Jatiya has been clearly described by Buddha in Sutta Nipata, Vasetta Sutta..

I have been working on propagating Buddhism in various ways. The path and the mentality of most of you have to be changed, unless Hinduism/ Chris tianity would overgrow in SL.

Buddhism never says to pray Gods. It is not that Soma Thero said that there is no Gods. What he said was there are Gods, but they are not the ones with lots of hands and faces like Katharagama and Vishnu. Why don't you understand this. You are the person with preconclusive mind. If you have valid points take them up.

I have answered this

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

Again, baseless/ invalid statements. Still I feel I have spent my valuable time which I could have more effectively used for the betterment of Religion.

All the other religion people things about their religion and protect it. But when Buddhists trying to do it people like you say that it is racism. You say Buddhism is not belong to us. So you want let anyone do anything to that and keep watching till it getting destroyed.

Buddhism does not belong to us. It belongs to the whole world. You are trying to own it. Mage'ya , Ape' ya, , Mage jathiya'ya which was called by the BUDDHA as ATHMAVADA..

As your Scientist says, ( Einstein knows very little; see Mula madyama karika- by Nagarjuna in Mahayana sect and Brahma Sutta in Hindusm to find about Relativity theory preached years ago...) Buddhism is a cosmic religion. It is the explanation of the whole universe. It is a philosophy as well as a religion.

That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

Correct what Buddha said was that

Mahaneni, anagataye budusasuna vinasha wane mitya dustikayan visin novei.

Mage sasane shramanayan athin mai.

Owun ma wadala deya novadala hatiyatath

Nowadala deya wadala hatiyatath deshana karanawa.

That is what SOMA thero has done!!

If you can answer my things. Also it is true that these cannot be spoken through emails (may be you are making it an excuse). But you and I know that there is no practicle possiblity to meet. Also we can discuss these things through emails.

Why not.. I am coming next Monday.

I may not be so good as the Buddha argued with Sacchchaka/ or like Nagasena araht argued with king Milindu. But I will still destroy your false perception. But do you think it is the way to find the truth? You are mistaken my friend

please do not run away. Come to the points.

MAHANENI MAGE DHARMAYA VASUNE NOMA BABALAI

NO VASUNE MA BABALAI

Read Buddhist scripts. Practice your way. Overthrow Sathkaya dushti (Athma vada), And Attain the Supreme state of Nibbana.

May you be overwhelmed with compassion!!!

Ashok

17th December 2003 - Reply to asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

See Text in this color

Dearest Friend

These are my replies. Thanks for giving me a chance.

I feel that you are a theoretical Buddhist who have not even attempted to on the path.

We always think we are correct. You tell me that I am theoretical. I tell you that you are so. Anyway not that important.

I am agreeing with you about the most you have stated in this mail. I think you have misunderstood Soma Thero and me. Or there must be some other reason for you to dislike Soma Thero. I find that there are no much conflicts between your sayings and Soma Theros sayings. It’s like 50-50 which is possible in any general case.

You typically lack in practicality. No Basics are taken from the Three baskets.

I agree

To understand basics you have to understand the core. Existing basics are interpretations and people unknowingly think as basics. Basics though the name applies goes a long way. The basics in Buddhism are the Ariya Attangika magga-Dana/Seela/ Bhavana; Seela/ Samadhi/ Pagna; Sapta visuddhi/ Satara satipattana etc. At the lowest level it can be simplified to pancha seela. Pancha seela too at the narrowest definitions gives a completely different interpretation.

I agree.

On this we can discuss for days and seems no point.. Start going in the said path for some time with prevailing basics then you will find that these basics are wrong

Also, It is not that eating meat is violating the first precept. I or Soma Thero or did not say so. Also eating meat is not a Sin. But if you can stop eating meat then you might me helping to save one animals life in a round way. Also people have no right to kill animals for their meat. That was what I meant before.

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

You have misunderstood. The concepts of trinity in Hinduism did not exist during Buddha's time.

Absolutely and I agree with it 100%. I don’t say that those Devas came to Buddism from Hinduism.

The existing religion was Vedantism more generally it was Brahmanism. It is completely different from today's Hinduism. Read history of Hinduism. During that time the main names relating to the trinity are all in Buddhist scriptures. Buddha never told to go behind them. He said about their existence.

Yes

There more than enough evidence that there are devas by these said names. Even Shiva, refer to anguttara nikaya where Siva Dev Puth comes and asks questions from Buddha. Buddha said don't go behind them. Clear.

Yes, but how do you say the God Shiva whom is prayed by Hindu is the same of Siva Dev Puth. As you said Buddha said not to go behind them. That is exactly the same Soma Thero told to these people. So what is your problem? No matter those Devas are same or not, they way Hindus take them and the way Buddhists take them is different. When Buddhists take them as Hindus do, that is what Soma Thero was talking about.

I feel that you haven’t heard Soma Theros preaching.

Refer to skanda purana and relationship with king Mahanama and Dutugemunu. You cannot challenge the existence even by name.

No I am not. I am not challenging the existence. Can you understand? I am challenging about Buddhist people going after them.

Let Hindus represent them by many hands/ faces . Why we are worried? Absolutely

If you know the concept fine. But don't challenge even by name because there is research done and most critics have concluded the relation in Buddhist scripts. Lead the life as Buddha said and gods with protect you (which means they can help you!! )

In this case yes they protect you. But you have to say how my friend. Reason is people misunderstood. Not by giving Pujaa Watti. Not by praying. But by good behavior of our own. By doing merits and giving the merit to the Gods also. Then they bless us. If we have merits with us we can get those blessings.

But when something happens (when sick), just because you go and pray for Shiva you cannot get anything. The god there is the Doctor. There is no conflict.

Read Metta sutta/ parinibbana sutta on sapta aparihana dharma of Lichchavis.how gods can help you (but they cannot change karma).

That is my point some Karmas can be changed some are not. Also Karma is not the only thing. (Dhitta Damma Wedaneeya, Upa Pajja Wdaneeya, Aparaapareeya and Ahosi Karma also there)

Read Milinda pragna how dreams may be shown by gods to people of future events. Also you can get things done through gods, it is a special science.

Yes those are specials sciences. Not only by Gods, but also by Bhutha Pretha also. Those are science. Buddha said not to go after those. What Soam Thero told also same.

We don’t need to worship them. If we are good they bless and help us. Just because we worship them they don’t help us. But in other religions they worship them and think that they get things from the gods. It’s ok for other religions people but not for us.

SO Without practicising SEELA even monks with Athma Dusti cannot understand certain things. So people go behind them..

Absolutely. That is what I am telling over and over again and also Soma Thero. So there is no conflict. You don’t need to ask help from Gods. If you practice SEELA then you get help.

Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Same. Try to understand karma. Learn that karma can be changed by you. By your great efforts.

I know and I agree.

It is pointless to pray for triple gem.

Yes, so what is the conflict? This is what I say. Even to triple Gem we don’t have to pay. Sarana means following the path.

Go on the path. Niyama dharma is broadly the explanation of the universe. It has nothing to do with what we discussed. Also karma is not the root cause of everything.

Why I got Niyama is to show that Karama is not the only thing. All these things come when deciding something.

Karma only fall in the in the explanation of causality. There are certain things call Ahetuka Vipath.

I know and I agree.

Still I feel I am wasting my time with heaps of official work with me

I too have lots of official work here, but I think these discussions are very much needed. For a moment think that I am a person who knows nothing. In that case you are lighting me up. Then you are like giving me a Dharma Dhana. Then if you say you are wasting your time it is too bad. Anyway who ever is wrong or correct these discussion are needed.

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read.

I have not spoken about jataka stories. Still there are core concepts we can get which is invaluable.

Ok.

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

If you want to argue, fine. But you will go nowhere without practicing. I have been arguing directly and I have the capacity to do so. There is no problem.

Good. In fact I would like to use the word discussion.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

Great, and are you a person we know? Also I appreciate you effort and I also want to support it from my capacity.

We have to have Buddhist monks from this race. Buddhism cannot be owned by any race.

I know and I agree.

Racism is on the verge of collapse (Sinhala Buddhist concept- only correct path is Theravada?? Only saviors of Buddhism are the Sinhala race..?? nonsence. Was dharma asoka a Sinhalese, was dalai lama a Sinhalese? Was Buddha Gosa acharya a Sinhalese? When Buddhism was in extinct thanks to Miyanmar for sending Sangha to re-establish Buddhism). Race -Jatiya has been clearly described by Buddha in Sutta Nipata, Vasetta Sutta..

What you say is correct. In that case Buddhism was not born in SL. Then this completely something out from us. Your examples are long time ago. (Asoka, Dalali Lama…..). Not only Sri Lankans are left. There may be rare cases abroad, but not in huge manner.

I again say saving Buddhism by Sinhalese is not Racism.

I have been working on propagating Buddhism in various ways. The path and the mentality of most of you have to be changed, unless Hinduism/ Christianity would overgrow in SL.

Yep, but not mine, but most of the people.

I have answered this

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

Again, baseless/ invalid statements. Still I feel I have spent my valuable time which I could have more effectively used for the betterment of Religion.

If you think so it is too bad, as you want to express things only to the people accepts you, not to the ones who says something against your ideas.

Buddhism does not belong to us. It belongs to the whole world.

I know and I agree, but now we have the responsibility to protect. In earlier the person who has the tooth relic owned the Crown. It says that SL has some big responsibility.

You are trying to own it. Mage'ya , Ape' ya, , Mage jathiya'ya which was called by the BUDDHA as ATHMAVADA..

No I am not. Niether Soma Thero. Trying to protect it. Also I know what Athma Waadaya is. Ok then according to that if all the monks went to the forest to meditate and attend Nibbana, so who is going to protect this. Desire (Thanhaawa) is there till you attend Nibbana. If you are propagating Buddhism it is also the desire. But you have to do it. Even to attend Nibban you must have the desire to attend it (Thanhaawa nathi karanna thanhaawa nathi kireeme thanhaawa thiyenna ona)

So mamathwaya is there. What is wrongs is if it is there too much. So you have to have limits. Protecting Buddhism is not Mamathwaya.

Here also I have to say something. I have stated the name of Einstein, just to show that even those people have talked about these. But as you say compared to things in Buddhism Einstein is no one. Also most of the scientific things people find present have been found by Buddha long time ago.

Also Science is something evolve by breaking old theories. So equaling Science and Buddhism is not something not done as Buddhism is an Universal truth.

That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

Correct what Buddha said was that

Mahaneni, anagataye budusasuna vinasha wane mitya dustikayan visin novei.

Mage sasane shramanayan athin mai.

Owun ma wadala deya novadala hatiyatath

Nowadala deya wadala hatiyatath deshana karanawa.

That is what SOMA thero has done!!

No you are wrong. I can’t understand why do you say so. I think you haven’t heard his preaching completely or else you have some other problem with him.

Why not.. I am coming next Monday.

No it is not the correct way. No point of arguing. That is why I said I don’t want to say this is an argument but discussion.

please do not run away. Come to the points.

MAHANENI MAGE DHARMAYA VASUNE NOMA BABALAI

NO VASUNE MA BABALAI

Read Buddhist scripts. Practice your way. Overthrow Sathkaya dushti (Athma vada), And Attain the Supreme state of Nibbana.

May you be overwhelmed with compassion!!!

Thank you!

Ashok

Reply from asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

OK fine. SEEMS to be on track now.
Yes will start discussion.
Here it begins!!
See the lettering below:

Dearest Friend

These are my replies. Thanks for giving me a chance.

I feel that you are a theoretical Buddhist who have not even attempted to on the path.

We always think we are correct. You tell me that I am theoretical. I tell you that you are so. Anyway not that important.

Yes

I am agreeing with you about the most you have stated in this mail. I think you have misunderstood Soma Thero and me. Or there must be some other reason for you to dislike Soma Thero. I find that there are no much conflicts between your sayings and Soma Theros sayings. It's like 50-50 which is possible in any general case.

I know Soma Thero well. I know also his history. I know also his life. I know a lot which don't want to unveil because I don't like other religious sects knowing about it. His work as a social refiner as I call is great. Well, the points he stressed on is not much important to me. All Buddhists who go to the temple know that worshipping devas and offerings to them is not the path to Nirvana. But they may have problems(weak mind) and the psychology of humans are that if there is a LIVING entity they trust on it more than the Buddha who has passed away. It is only a temporary relievement for them. Also they go to the Buddha shrine as well. There is no fuss to create. If you need a help you may go to a friend. Similarly as Gods live by incense, smell of fruits etc. they could help if you make a offering. But according the Doctrine, the most valuable offering is the transfer of merits by an act like Ata visi Buddha puja, compassion meditation, Vipassana meditation so on (Abhidamma pitaka ranks the meritorial order). Soma thero challenged that you cannot get help from Devas. I am stressing this point because I have had many experiences on this. I never worship Devas (of course if you like you may). But I know that they could help humans. There are innumerable cases in Buddhist scripts where Devas have helped humans. I do strongly believe and experience it. If somebody tries to negate it and throw harsh words on Gods remember that there could be adverse effects.

You typically lack in practicality. No Basics are taken from the Three baskets.

I agree

I agree.

On this we can discuss for days and seems no point.. Start going in the said path for some time with prevailing basics then you will find that these basics are wrong

Meat is carcase. First question is can humans eat carcase? Will a Buddha eat carcase??

Manasa usas lesa wediya haki bavin 'manussa' nam ve

Again the narrow definition of the 1^st precept- I don't kill live creatures??

A more broader definition.. OK I don't kill I support killing. How? By eating.

The broader definition is that ' refrain from KILLING, refrain from instructing OTHERS to KILL, refrain from supporting (meat eating), stay happily in slaughter field looking at it (see APADANA pali how Buddha suffered from a head ache due to such an incident in the previous birth- PRAVURTHI VIPAKA), refrain from praising the slaughter..

SEE HOW IT GOES

Read JEEVAKA sutta on TRIKOTIKA PARISUDDHA MANSHA, read Lankavatara sutta- mahayana sect, read Matsya jataka, read Anguttara Nikaya CHatuka Nipatha on many such cases...

Best part is that you bless 'may all beings be happy' . Fish is also a creature and eat the innocent creature for lunch. What a dilemma!

The samsara so long and all creatures present have been our mother/fathers/ sisters/ loved ones... so we eat their flesh! Absurd..

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

You have misunderstood. The concepts of trinity in Hinduism did not exist during Buddha's time.

Absolutely and I agree with it 100%. I don't say that those Devas came to Buddism from Hinduism.

Yes

I feel that you haven't heard Soma Theros preaching.

I said that during Buddhas time there was no Shiva concept in Hinduism. Most sects emerged lately. What I say is that Siva concept in Hinduism is different. The Siva described in Buddhism may have had the origin for the Hindus as this god lived in the high mountains. Even if it does not have there may be such a god/ deva in Himalayas / Kailasa. How can you say NO? Without knowing do not criticize. Soma thero criticized and said NO. The same experience the Hindus get from making offerings to him may be experienced by Buddhists offering to him. Let them get the help if they could. But it is temporary and it is not the path to nirvana. All know that. If you can get help from somebody go. Haven't you ever sought help from anybody? If yes, why did you? You are a Buddhist and believe in the Tripple gem. Why did you seek help from any other?

Refer to skanda purana and relationship with king Mahanama and Dutugemunu. You cannot challenge the existence even by name.

No I am not. I am not challenging the existence. Can you understand? I am challenging about Buddhist people going after them.

I hope you get a chance to experience some things in the future. Let people get help if they need.

Also, Monks are there to show the path. What they know about family problems, child birth, how to make birth control etc..? The robe is a symbol that he has understood the suffering of samsara and he is on his way. Not to discuss family/ women problems on public as Soma thero.

Let Hindus represent them by many hands/ faces . Why we are worried? Absolutely

Yes.

But when something happens (when sick), just because you go and pray for Shiva you cannot get anything. The god there is the Doctor. There is no conflict.

Again you are challenging. Depends on what kind of ailment. Have you ever heard of Yaksha , Bhutha Dosa? Do you ever have experience Gurukam? See Brahmajala Sutta deega Nikaya for such sciences.

Read Metta sutta/ parinibbana sutta on sapta aparihana dharma of Lichchavis.how gods can help you (but they cannot change karma).

That is my point some Karmas can be changed some are not. Also Karma is not the only thing. (Dhitta Damma Wedaneeya, Upa Pajja Wdaneeya, Aparaapareeya and Ahosi Karma also there)

There 16 facets of karma. How the reaction is by place, by time, by birth , by nature each 4.

Thatagatayani, mata nam hondatama karmaya watahenawa

Anandaya, ese nokiyanna. Karmaya itha gamburui. Avabodhayata itha dushkarai...

Read Milinda pragna how dreams may be shown by gods to people of future events. Also you can get things done through gods, it is a special science.

Yes those are specials sciences. Not only by Gods, but also by Bhutha Pretha also. Those are science. Buddha said not to go after those. What Soam Thero told also same.

We don't need to worship them. If we are good they bless and help us. Just because we worship them they don't help us. But in other religions they worship them and think that they get things from the gods. It's ok for other religions people but not for us.

Yes

SO Without practicising SEELA even monks with Athma Dusti cannot understand certain things. So people go behind them..

Absolutely. That is what I am telling over and over again and also Soma Thero. So there is no conflict. You don't need to ask help from Gods. If you practice SEELA then you get help.

Yes. They would help you whether you ask or not. WHICH means they protect you. Which means you have help from them.

Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Same. Try to understand karma. Learn that karma can be changed by you. By your great efforts.

I know and I agree.

It is pointless to pray for triple gem.

Yes, so what is the conflict? This is what I say. Even to triple Gem we don't have to pay. Sarana means following the path.

There are many interpretations on Buddha/ Dhamma/ Sanga saranei. See Anguttara nikaya

Go on the path. Niyama dharma is broadly the explanation of the universe. It has nothing to do with what we discussed. Also karma is not the root cause of everything.

Why I got Niyama is to show that Karama is not the only thing. All these things come when deciding something.

Karma only fall in the in the explanation of causality. There are certain things call Ahetuka Vipath.

I know and I agree.

Still I feel I am wasting my time with heaps of official work with me

The waves of the ocean flow to the shore. It breaks into parts. And new waves emerge from the same water. There is no end to questions and arguments/ discussions., unless there is realization. At the point of realization there is calmness and bliss and no more waves would rise. It is hard to describe this state. At this juncture the description of 'self' is void. What more can be about 'sinhalese- buddhist' concept?

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read.

I have not spoken about jataka stories. Still there are core concepts we can get which is invaluable.

Ok.

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

If you want to argue, fine. But you will go nowhere without practicing. I have been arguing directly and I have the capacity to do so. There is no problem.

Good. In fact I would like to use the word discussion.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

Great, and are you a person we know? Also I appreciate you effort and I also want to support it from my capacity.

We have to have Buddhist monks from this race. Buddhism cannot be owned by any race.

I know and I agree.

What you say is correct. In that case Buddhism was not born in SL. Then this completely something out from us. Your examples are long time ago. (Asoka, Dalali Lama.....). Not only Sri Lankans are left. There may be rare cases abroad, but not in huge manner.

I again say saving Buddhism by Sinhalese is not Racism.

Save Buddhism as a Buddhist. I don't know whether I am Sinhalese. How can I know? Is there any extra part in my body which tamils do not have? Or is it just because I speak that language? Or is it because I have it in my B/certificate?

I have been working on propagating Buddhism in various ways. The path and the mentality of most of you have to be changed, unless Hinduism/ Christianity would overgrow in SL.

Yep, but not mine, but most of the people.

I have answered this

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

Again, baseless/ invalid statements. Still I feel I have spent my valuable time which I could have more effectively used for the betterment of Religion.

If you think so it is too bad, as you want to express things only to the people accepts you, not to the ones who says something against your ideas.

OK, now I discuss with you.

Buddhism does not belong to us. It belongs to the whole world.

I know and I agree, but now we have the responsibility to protect. In earlier the person who has the tooth relic owned the Crown. It says that SL has some big responsibility.

You are trying to own it. Mage'ya , Ape' ya, , Mage jathiya'ya which was called by the BUDDHA as ATHMAVADA..

WRONG. Desire is defined as the attachments to worldly things. (KAMA/ BHAVA/VI-BHAVA)

All attempts out of it and making others out of the Samasaric flow is KARUNAWA.

Getting out of Samsara is an attempt to quit out of suffering (having realized it) . Nibbana is this end-state. It is the understanding of suffering and the struggle to get out of it. There is no desire there and is only craving.

Somebody is giving wrong interpretations to you. Again clergy with no path I assume..

So mamathwaya is there. What is wrongs is if it is there too much. So you have to have limits. Protecting Buddhism is not Mamathwaya.

Once you have crossed the river, will you ever walk the Paruwa on your head? This is for arahats.

For us, protect Buddhism in a peaceful way. Learn dharma and guide people directly, but practice it!!

Also Science is something evolve by breaking old theories. So equaling Science and Buddhism is not something not done as Buddhism is an Universal truth.

YES

That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

Correct what Buddha said was that

Mahaneni, anagataye budusasuna vinasha wane mitya dustikayan visin novei.

Mage sasane shramanayan athin mai.

Owun ma wadala deya novadala hatiyatath

Nowadala deya wadala hatiyatath deshana karanawa.

That is what SOMA thero has done!!

No you are wrong. I can't understand why do you say so. I think you haven't heard his preaching completely or else you have some other problem with him.

He is too harsh as a priest. He used wrong strategy to preach people..

Has he preached effectively that THIS IS THE WAY.?

What he mainly said was THIS IS NOT THE WAY

Why not.. I am coming next Monday.

No it is not the correct way. No point of arguing. That is why I said I don't want to say this is an argument but discussion.

please do not run away. Come to the points.

MAHANENI MAGE DHARMAYA VASUNE NOMA BABALAI

NO VASUNE MA BABALAI

Read Buddhist scripts. Practice your way. Overthrow Sathkaya dushti (Athma vada), And Attain the Supreme state of Nibbana.

May you be overwhelmed with compassion!!!

Ashok

18th December 2003 - Reply to asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

OK fine. SEEMS to be on track now.
Yes will start discussion.
Here it begins!!
See the lettering below:

I too think that it seems to be on track. Yes we’ll discuss. I will eliminate the parts which both of us have come to a conclusion.

I know Soma Thero well. I know also his history. I know also his life. I know a lot which don't want to unveil because I don't like other religious sects knowing about it.

So what? Who cares? What matters is what is he telling now. Whether they are good or bad. That is how you think and how you want to tell others. Also what do we know about you, your history and other things.

His work as a social refiner as I call is great. Well, the points he stressed on is not much important to me.

But they are important to considerable amount of people in SL. You are not at SL at this moment. If you see the streets then you will understand how much people had been with him. All the streets are full of yellow flags (I don’t think the way we honor him is not by putting flags, but it indicates his importance to the country)

All Buddhists who go to the temple know that worshipping devas and offerings to them is not the path to Nirvana.

You are mistaken. They don’t know. If you think they knew that then you don’t know about SL people.

The only recent person who made people understands that was Soma Thero. Because of him most of the people came to know that worshipping Devas and offering them is not the path to Nirvana.

But they may have problems(weak mind) and the psychology of humans are that if there is a LIVING entity they trust on it more than the Buddha who has passed away. It is only a temporary relievement for them. Also they go to the Buddha shrine as well. There is no fuss to create.

Yes because of the weak mind. Soma Thero tried his best to strengthen those minds.

If you need a help you may go to a friend. Similarly as Gods live by incense, smell of fruits etc. they could help if you make a offering.

May be.

But according the Doctrine, the most valuable offering is the transfer of merits by an act like Ata visi Buddha puja, compassion meditation, Vipassana meditation so on (Abhidamma pitaka ranks the meritorial order).

That is what Soma Thero always told. That is the way he told to get the blessings of God. Not by giving fruits.

Soma thero challenged that you cannot get help from Devas.

No he didn’t. You haven’t heard him properly. You have heard the part of it or you pop up only the part you want. He said the way getting the blessings from God (you call it help). What he said was it is not the way to do by giving Puja Wattis.

I am stressing this point because I have had many experiences on this. I never worship Devas (of course if you like you may). But I know that they could help humans.

Yes, but according to the way we have discussed by giving merits. Also there can be other ways and those are different science which are not known to everyone. But anyone can get the support by giving the credit of the merit. Soma Thero has told these things. You haven’t heard him.

There are innumerable cases in Buddhist scripts where Devas have helped humans. I do strongly believe and experience it. If somebody tries to negate it and throw harsh words on Gods remember that there could be adverse effects.

Then the Deva who does that adverse affect to human is not a Deva, but a Devil. Devas are good person. They must have sympathy and other good qualities than human. Apart from the affect of Karma, Niyama and other all the things, if the mind of a person is pure and good, if he always do good, none of the Deva, or Devil cannot harm that good human. If your mind is strong most of the time you can win all these things. Also I accept that special cases also are there.

Meat is carcase. First question is can humans eat carcase? Will a Buddha eat carcase??

I don’t understand what you mean.

Manasa usas lesa wediya haki bavin 'manussa' nam ve
Again the narrow definition of the 1^st precept- I don't kill live creatures??
A more broader definition.. OK I don't kill I support killing. How? By eating.

SEE HOW IT GOES

Yes if you go deep this is the border definition. So what? This is exactly the same what Soma Thero said. So what is the conflict? Tell me you say eating meat is ok or not. From the first mail that I got this, what I understood is you are telling, “eating meat is ok”. Did you? Correct me if I have misunderstood.

Read JEEVAKA sutta on TRIKOTIKA PARISUDDHA MANSHA, read Lankavatara sutta- mahayana sect, read Matsya jataka, read Anguttara Nikaya CHatuka Nipatha on many such cases...

Best part is that you bless 'may all beings be happy' . Fish is also a creature and eat the innocent creature for lunch. What a dilemma!

Yes eating beef is same as eating fish for me. Killing a big creature is same as killing a mosquitoes with the intention for me. Because of Soma Thero I know that many stopped killing mosquitoes.

The samsara so long and all creatures present have been our mother/fathers/ sisters/ loved ones... so we eat their flesh! Absurd..

I agree. So what is your problem with Soma Thero regarding this?

I said that during Buddhas time there was no Shiva concept in Hinduism. Most sects emerged lately. What I say is that Siva concept in Hinduism is different.

That is what exactly I am and Soma Thero was saying.

The Siva described in Buddhism may have had the origin for the Hindus as this god lived in the high mountains.

May be. But these are stories like things. Till we see it ourselves we cannot say much.

Even if it does not have there may be such a god/ deva in Himalayas/ Kailasa. How can you say NO?

I don’t say no, but who cares? Let him be there.

Without knowing do not criticize.

Yes, you too follow it. Without knowing what exactly Soma Thero said you criticizes him. By this time it is crystal clear to me that you haven’t heard Soma Theros preaching. Or you have heard half. Or you take half the amount you want to take.

Soma thero criticized and said NO.

No what he always said was there is not such God like described in Hindu in Buddhism and the concept is different. You haven’t heard that part.

The same experience the Hindus get from making offerings to him may be experienced by Buddhists offering to him. Let them get the help if they could. But it is temporary and it is not the path to nirvana. All know that.

No you are mistaken. All? Who is this all? Most of the people doesn’t know this. Even they know they really don’t know. Soma Thero was the one who made most of the people understood this. Most of the people thought that like in Hindu, they can get things and it was there in Buddhism also. This was taught to people by Soma Thero. I mean he is not the only one, but he is the only person who went that much to the people.

If you can get help from somebody go. Haven't you ever sought help from anybody? If yes, why did you? You are a Buddhist and believe in the Tripple gem. Why did you seek help from any other?

Stupid statement. Getting help from a friend and praying for the help from Gods and believing triple Gem are three different things. That I why I am saying when you are sick the real God is the Doctor. When you are at school the real God is the teacher. For all of us parents are Gods. Friend is a human. Getting help from a friend is totally different.

What we expect from a friend, God and the triple Gem are three different things.

Seeking help from a God and a friend you cannot compare. This kind of argument is not for a person like you (by this time I have an image about you that you know things well. In fact a lot than me. May be what you are doing and what Soma Thero did was the same. But the thing Soma Thero did was more effective)

I hope you get a chance to experience some things in the future. Let people get help if they need.

But we have to tell those people it is not the way.

Also, Monks are there to show the path.

Yes, that is what Soma Thero did.

What they know about family problems, child birth, how to make birth control etc..? The robe is a symbol that he has understood the suffering of samsara and he is on his way. Not to discuss family/ women problems on public as Soma thero.

That is a narrow-minded expression. This is really an another topic to discuss in detail. So then how Singalo Wada Suthra came. How Lord Buddha knew the way Husband and Wife treat each other. As you know lots of Suttas you can find yourself a lot about these kind of topics Lord Buddha has preached.

These are general things. Most of the people in Sri Lanka because they are reluctant to talk these things when necessary they face lots of problems. Even a monk has the general understating about these things. He had lived in this country. He has seen the things as a general person have seen.

Guiding the people and showing the path in every possible way is the responsibility of a monk. That is what he said and what Lord Buddha said.

According to your ideas it was wrong the precept of “Abrahma Chariya Weramanee” for Buddha to preach.

These are general things. If you look those things in a bad angle (as you always like to look at Soma Thero in a bad angle), then you feel that they are bad to say. But they are not.

Try to understand the simple factor that an ordinary person who lived in this country can understand those things.

Again you are challenging. Depends on what kind of ailment. Have you ever heard of Yaksha , Bhutha Dosa? Do you ever have experience Gurukam? See Brahmajala Sutta deega Nikaya for such sciences.

Simple answer. They are sciences. Not everyone can do that. When you are so sick the best gurukama is known by the Doctor. There can be affects from other things also. But it depends in the destiny of the person.

But most of the people try to depend from only those things. That is not the way.

There 16 facets of karma. How the reaction is by place, by time, by birth , by nature each 4.

I know them to an ordinary standard.

Thatagatayani, mata nam hondatama karmaya watahenawa
Anandaya, ese nokiyanna. Karmaya itha gamburui. Avabodhayata itha dushkarai...

Yes

Yes. They would help you whether you ask or not.

That is the most important thing. That is exactly the same Soma Thero said.

WHICH means they protect you.

They protect you if you are good. They protect you when you are full of merits and when you give merits to them also.

Which means you have help from them.

I am looking for a better word than “help”. The reason is the so-called “help” is deserved by the good person. It is not something you get going after.

There are many interpretations on Buddha/ Dhamma/ Sanga saranei. See Anguttara nikaya

Yes you are correct. But basically we can get the idea, aren’t we?

The waves of the ocean flow to the shore. It breaks into parts. And new waves emerge from the same water. There is no end to questions and arguments/ discussions., unless there is realization.

Absolutely.

At the point of realization there is calmness and bliss and no more waves would rise. It is hard to describe this state. At this juncture the description of 'self' is void. What more can be about 'sinhalese- buddhist' concept?

Not only Sinhalese Buddhist, even Buddhist. But you have to wait till the occasion that no more waves are rising. Till then “self” there.

Again I say someone has to protect this at present and in future. Those are mostly the Sinhalese.

So is there extra part in your body called “Buddhist”?

OK, now I discuss with you.

Good

WRONG. Desire is defined as the attachments to worldly things. (KAMA/ BHAVA/VI-BHAVA)

Yes.

All attempts out of it and making others out of the Samasaric flow is KARUNAWA.

What you say is I agree. What I was trying to say is till you attend nibbana you have the desire. It is eliminated only after attenting Nibbana. Rupa Raaga, Arupa Raaga, Mana, Uddachcha, Awijja is there till you attend nibbana.

Somebody is giving wrong interpretations to you. Again clergy with no path I assume..

Nope you have misunderstood.

Once you have crossed the river, will you ever walk the Paruwa on your head? This is for arahats.

For us, protect Buddhism in a peaceful way. Learn dharma and guide people directly, but practice it!!

Yes that is the way. That is what Soma Thero did. But to people at Sri Lanka you have to say bit toughly. Otherwise they don’t understand. It should be peaceful way. But when needed you have to use the most effective way.

The way Soma Thero did is so tough. But it was the way. During these days if you get down to a street you can understand how much has he gone to the people. You also might have done things, but Soma Theros things are more visible. That is what mostly needed. You gotta go to people and make them understand things.

He is too harsh as a priest. He used wrong strategy to preach people..

No the most suitable strategy. You can see that he has reached people if you get down to a street. I have never seen such a number of yellow flags in Sri Lanka before.

Has he preached effectively that THIS IS THE WAY.?

What he mainly said was THIS IS NOT THE WAY

No he has. The above two statements prove that you have not listened to his preaching. While showing this is not the way he has preached a lot about the way. There are many.

Also he has done it so effectively.

Read Buddhist scripts. Practice your way. Overthrow Sathkaya dushti (Athma vada), And Attain the Supreme state of Nibbana.

May you be overwhelmed with compassion!!!

Thank you.

Ashok

You say that his way was not the way. But if you get down to a street of Sri Lanka these days, you can see that he has gone to people more than you (even more than we) think.

He has done a great Job to this country. You cannot underestimate those.

18th December 2003 - Reply from asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

See the lettering below:

I too think that it seems to be on track. Yes we'll discuss. I will eliminate the parts which both of us have come to a conclusion.

I do not hope to continue this dialog as I understand that you and I cannot be agreeable on certain basic issues. May be in time to come you may understand. At the correct karmic maturity you may realize these issues.

I know Soma Thero well. I know also his history. I know also his life. I know a lot which don't want to unveil because I don't like other religious sects knowing about it.

What one preaches should be practiced by the person. Otherwise there is no validity in his statements. May you do a paryeshana as in 'ariya pariyasana sutta' about Soma thero and his life in Australia . Then you come back and I will direct you to his loved ones to get a closer view. Don't go to the history of mine. I am not a priest. There is a SEELA PRATHIPADA for a priest, called Parti Moksha, have you heard of it? Read and find the context of it. Look only the present if you wish and don't trace the past. If you like, you may look on my history. I don't mind (after I have followed the ariya path from nihilism which I earlier followed)

His work as a social refiner as I call is great. Well, the points he stressed on is not much important to me.

But they are important to considerable amount of people in SL. You are not at SL at this moment. If you see the streets then you will understand how much people had been with him. All the streets are full of yellow flags (I don't think the way we honor him is not by putting flags, but it indicates his importance to the country)

The dayaka/ daika in our country go either behind handsome preists (Ven.Uduwe Dhammaloka, earlier Ven. Sobhitha when he was young), or behind priests who cry rather than preaching (Ven Sumangala), then they went behind Pirith Pan (.....I cannot remember the name!) , then they went behind Kawi bana ( Dematagoda Kawi Dhaja..who made path a samanera to suicide!) then they go behind magicians (sai baba), then they go behind some change (like now kiribathgoda Gnanananda). Also, all preists after passing away are 'BUDU BAVA PATHANA HIMILA' or "SOWAN' ; This is exactly what BUDDHA said would happen in the future. People go behind magic.. not SEELA. Majority people does not know where to go and they are misled and that is the end. The politicians ruin the rest. As if the priests in SL are better than the BUDDHA. They have said what Buddha preached. Thanks for the Kindness of the BUDDHA.

All Buddhists who go to the temple know that worshipping devas and offerings to them is not the path to Nirvana.

You are mistaken. They don't know. If you think they knew that then you don't know about SL people.

You think that you are correct. Think, very good.. Otherwise this discussion will not end.

The only recent person who made people understands that was Soma Thero. Because of him most of the people came to know that worshipping Devas and offering them is not the path to Nirvana.

Still the people are doing the same. No change. Go to the Bellanwila Vihara in the morning. Go to temples on poya days to see the flock of people at the Devalas. Go to Anderson road visnu devala the crowd of Buddhists! Ven Soma has not been effective ?

Yes because of the weak mind. Soma Thero tried his best to strengthen those minds.

Very weak approach. Failed many times. Disgraced Buddhists on the debate with Ashroff.

His attempts very good.

If you need a help you may go to a friend. Similarly as Gods live by incense, smell of fruits etc. they could help if you make a offering.

May be.

That is what Soma Thero always told. That is the way he told to get the blessings of God. Not by giving fruits.

I never consented giving fruits to devas. Of course, giving fruits is better than giving cooked fish as a Buddha puja!! (out of the subject)

Soma thero challenged that you cannot get help from Devas.

No he didn't. You haven't heard him properly. You have heard the part of it or you pop up only the part you want. He said the way getting the blessings from God (you call it help). What he said was it is not the way to do by giving Puja Wattis.

Lord Buddha said it many years ago and Buddhists know that.

I am stressing this point because I have had many experiences on this. I never worship Devas (of course if you like you may). But I know that they could help humans.

I do not miss his sermons.

Some devas though we call them are Yakshas. Some devas in PURA PAKSHA has the characteristics of deva. At AVA PAKSHA (15 days of reducing moon) he has yaksha characteristics. Some Devas do not have that characteristic. Sakra or Indra(in Hinduism) is a god with good characteristic. As humans good and bad people exist in Deva plane. KALI as Hindus say (I don't know) show the bad characteristics. But Skanda , Visnu as they call has only GOOD characteristics. If go to a THAGAA and ask help to assaut some body he would come. But if you to a virtuous personand ask the same help he would not come.

See MARA THAJJANEEYA SUTTA in MAJJIMA NIKAYA how MARA DEV PUTH went inside Mugalan Thero's stomach and tried to harm him. So isn't Mugalan a person with PURE? GOOD and also extraordinary IRDIC power? You have to learn the doctrine. Don't arrive at conclusions without reading / understanding/ experiencing.

Meat is carcase. First question is can humans eat carcase? Will a Buddha eat carcase??

I don't understand what you mean.

When an animal dies the remains are called carcase (MALAKUNU)

SEE HOW IT GOES

Yes if you go deep this is the border definition. So what? This is exactly the same what Soma Thero said. So what is the conflict? Tell me you say eating meat is ok or not. From the first mail that I got this, what I understood is you are telling, "eating meat is ok". Did you? Correct me if I have misunderstood.

I am a Vegetarian and am actively involved in work against animal slaughter

Read JEEVAKA sutta on TRIKOTIKA PARISUDDHA MANSHA, read Lankavatara sutta- mahayana sect, read Matsya jataka, read Anguttara Nikaya CHatuka Nipatha on many such cases...

Best part is that you bless 'may all beings be happy' . Fish is also a creature and eat the innocent creature for lunch. What a dilemma!

Yes eating beef is same as eating fish for me. Killing a big creature is same as killing a mosquitoes with the intention for me. Because of Soma Thero I know that many stopped killing mosquitoes.

NO. Killing a big creature is different to killing a small one. Reason is because the larger animal takes a longer time to be killed; it has to be planned, many to be involved, and the evil thoughts involved are more. Compare killing an elephant and a mosquito. Note that karmas are threefold KAYA KARMA/ VAG KARMA/ MANO KARMA. The latter two more when killing a larger animal..

The samsara so long and all creatures present have been our mother/fathers/ sisters/ loved ones... so we eat their flesh! Absurd..

I agree. So what is your problem with Soma Thero regarding this?

I was describing against meat eating and how SOMA thero on several occasions (during his early sermons) attacked the non-meat eating Buddhists!! Even through radio just before he became so popular. We had to write many requests to him against these by Vegetarian societies..

I said that during Buddhas time there was no Shiva concept in Hinduism. Most sects emerged lately. What I say is that Siva concept in Hinduism is different.

That is what exactly I am and Soma Thero was saying.

Soma thero said there is no such deva even by name and he challenged..

The Siva described in Buddhism may have had the origin for the Hindus as this god lived in the high mountains.

May be. But these are stories like things. Till we see it ourselves we cannot say much.

You may not..I agree

Even if it does not have there may be such a god/ deva in Himalayas / Kailasa. How can you say NO?

I don't say no, but who cares? Let him be there.

The moon shines in the darkness. But some creatures in the forest still howl during that time

Without knowing do not criticize.

Yes, you too follow it. Without knowing what exactly Soma Thero said you criticizes him. By this time it is crystal clear to me that you haven't heard Soma Theros preaching. Or you have heard half. Or you take half the amount you want to take.

I have taken the full, you have taken only the half.

The cup is yet empty, so pour more and drink. Cheers!!

Soma thero criticized and said NO.

No what he always said was there is not such God like described in Hindu in Buddhism and the concept is different. You haven't heard that part.

He says many things. Different things on different days. For some people it was a fun. Some things he said X is true. After some time he says X BAR (negation of X) is true.

No you are mistaken. All? Who is this all? Most of the people doesn't know this. Even they know they really don't know. Soma Thero was the one who made most of the people understood this. Most of the people thought that like in Hindu, they can get things and it was there in Buddhism also. This was taught to people by Soma Thero. I mean he is not the only one, but he is the only person who went that much to the people.

'All' are Buddhists. And that is why they are called 'Buddhists'..

The concept of Gods in Buddhism was taught by the BUDDHA. Soma thero just Re-iterred what ANANTA JINA preached. He showed a sign of changing the prevailing Rituals. Stars come and go away. Some stars are yet to come. Still people would look at the stars and talk good/ bad about them.

If you can get help from somebody go. Haven't you ever sought help from anybody? If yes, why did you? You are a Buddhist and believe in the Tripple gem. Why did you seek help from any other?

What we expect from a friend, God and the triple Gem are three different things.

Stupid? It is relative.

One day a youth thought of thinking about the ends/ beginning of these worlds/ universes/ humans. He went to the forest and sat by a pond. Then as he was in deep thought he saw a tiny creature as a shape of human (size of a thumb like in fairy tales, Thumbalina) running at a terrible speed. It quickly jumped inside the stem of a Lotus leaf and vanished. Then the youth thought himself was getting crazy and that he was stupid thinking it was a real incident. Buddha explains in ANGUTTARA NIKAYA on the same incident and explains that actually a war between gods took place and the Asura's escaped through this stem to their kingdom.

Very good . Soma thero did well. Did a lot. Who am I? CORRECT and AGREE

I am just a GIHI. That's all. But I have the right to talk the same way as Soma thero, because I am against 'SHRAMANA VESADHARIN'.

Getting help is getting help. Blessings are also a help. The concept can be applied to human or Gods the same way. It is the concept of 'HELP' that Soma thero said cannot be received by Gods. Help can also go beyond blessings to worldly requirements..

I hope you get a chance to experience some things in the future. Let people get help if they need.

But we have to tell those people it is not the way.

Agree

Also, Monks are there to show the path.

Yes, that is what Soma Thero did.

Very well to some extent.

Not about the number of children and Preethi copu

Guiding the people and showing the path in every possible way is the responsibility of a monk. That is what he said and what Lord Buddha said.

According to your ideas it was wrong the precept of "Abrahma Chariya Weramanee" for Buddha to preach.

Abrahmachariya is UNDER Atasil. There are great merits of observing Atasil. You are not doing it everyday as a GIHI.

These are general things. If you look those things in a bad angle (as you always like to look at Soma Thero in a bad angle), then you feel that they are bad to say. But they are not.

Try to understand the simple factor that an ordinary person who lived in this country can understand those things.

Buddha was not an ordinary person. The persons following the Arya path is also not ordinary persons. It is so difficult to practice. You and me may not be able to do it. But there are people who do it. You are preaching the ordinary to follow an extra-ordinary path. This is not easy. Bloughing is something, preaching is different.

Again you are challenging. Depends on what kind of ailment. Have you ever heard of Yaksha , Bhutha Dosa? Do you ever have experience Gurukam? See Brahmajala Sutta deega Nikaya for such sciences.

But most of the people try to depend from only those things. That is not the way.

Yes

There 16 facets of karma. How the reaction is by place, by time, by birth , by nature each 4.

I know them to an ordinary standard.

Very good.

Thatagatayani, mata nam hondatama karmaya watahenawa
Anandaya, ese nokiyanna. Karmaya itha gamburui. Avabodhayata itha dushkarai...

Yes

Yes. They would help you whether you ask or not.

That is the most important thing. That is exactly the same Soma Thero said.

WHICH means they protect you.

They protect you if you are good. They protect you when you are full of merits and when you give merits to them also.

SO BE GOOD. And show the people to be good.

Which means you have help from them.

I am looking for a better word than "help". The reason is the so-called "help" is deserved by the good person. It is not something you get going after.

People may help without anybody requesting. Good persons have the habit of helping.

There are many interpretations on Buddha/ Dhamma/ Sanga saranei. See Anguttara nikaya

Yes you are correct. But basically we can get the idea, aren't we?

The waves of the ocean flow to the shore. It breaks into parts. And new waves emerge from the same water. There is no end to questions and arguments/ discussions., unless there is realization.

Absolutely.

Not only Sinhalese Buddhist, even Buddhist. But you have to wait till the occasion that no more waves are rising. Till then "self" there.

Buddhist is the follower of Arya path. He is not an owner or protector of anything.

You are building up 'self'

Again I say someone has to protect this at present and in future. Those are mostly the Sinhalese.

So protect. Very good.

So is there extra part in your body called "Buddhist"?

Again I said that Buddhist only a 'follower' of a path.

OK, now I discuss with you.

Good

WRONG. Desire is defined as the attachments to worldly things. (KAMA/ BHAVA/VI-BHAVA)

Yes.

All attempts out of it and making others out of the Samasaric flow is KARUNAWA.

Yes. But Sagna and wedana remains until ANUPADISESA NIBBANA. That is why CHANNA ARAHAT cut his throat and suicided without able to bear pain. See CHANNA OPAWADA SUTTA.

Somebody is giving wrong interpretations to you. Again clergy with no path I assume..

Nope you have misunderstood.

Once you have crossed the river, will you ever walk the Paruwa on your head? This is for arahats.

For us, protect Buddhism in a peaceful way. Learn dharma and guide people directly, but practice it!!

Yes that is the way. That is what Soma Thero did. But to people at Sri Lanka you have to say bit toughly. Otherwise they don't understand. It should be peaceful way. But when needed you have to use the most effective way.

See how some politicians have gone to people. Remember Premadasa?

May the people understand things!!

He is too harsh as a priest. He used wrong strategy to preach people..

No the most suitable strategy. You can see that he has reached people if you get down to a street. I have never seen such a number of yellow flags in Sri Lanka before.

Number of flags not an indication of the truth. So is he better than Ananda Maitriya?

Has he preached effectively that THIS IS THE WAY.?

What he mainly said was THIS IS NOT THE WAY

No he has. The above two statements prove that you have not listened to his preaching. While showing this is not the way he has preached a lot about the way. There are many.

Wrong!!

Right way has not been shown. Will discuss in detail , I have no time. There is the path. It is very clear and shining as a gem, but thrown out by priests

Also he has done it so effectively.

No.

Read Buddhist scripts. Practice your way. Overthrow Sathkaya dushti (Athma vada), And Attain the Supreme state of Nibbana.

May you be overwhelmed with compassion!!!

Thank you.

You say that his way was not the way. But if you get down to a street of Sri Lanka these days, you can see that he has gone to people more than you (even more than we) think.

Can the number of people be an indicator of the Truth. How many people go behind sai baba? How many people went behind Pirith Pan?

He has done a great Job to this country. You cannot underestimate those.

I always admire his attempts and may he attain Nibbana!!

Ashok

19th December 2003 - Reply to asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

See the lettering below:
See the lettering below:

If you don’t want to continue this dialog then you can stop. Also there isn’t any basic issue I found that you and I cannot agreeable. I also believe that regarding the issues we talked so far I have the real understanding. The only not agreeable issue is due to some unclear reason you want to say what Soma Thero did was wrong.

People do not need to agree with Soma Thero 100% (But I do agree with him in most of the issues). But he talked about lots of things. Even though some people do not agree with him 90% most of them are agreeing with him at least 60%.

What one preaches should be practiced by the person. Otherwise there is no validity in his statements.

Yes

May you do a paryeshana as in 'ariya pariyasana sutta' about Soma thero and his life in Australia. Then you come back and I will direct you to his loved ones to get a closer view.

I don’t trust you. I see you as a typical person whom we have seen enough in this society to make such stories. What so ever I have seen Soma Thero for about 5, 6 years. So that is enough for me to honor him.

Don't go to the history of mine. I am not a priest. There is a SEELA PRATHIPADA for a priest, called Parti Moksha, have you heard of it?

Yes

Read and find the context of it. Look only the present if you wish and don't trace the past. If you like, you may look on my history. I don't mind (after I have followed the ariya path from nihilism which I earlier followed)

It is not that I wanted to trace your past. What I meant was any person has a history. So do you. So do I. Angulimala killed 999 people. He became Arhat. But again he had to suffer for what he did. No matter he killed as a priest or not.

Also please understand the above example doesn’t mean that I accept what you said about Soma Thero.

Yes so what? But there is a difference between the above and Soma Thero. Reason for people to accept Soma Thero was none of the above features. It was only the things he said, his braveness and his service to the country.

Also, all preists after passing away are 'BUDU BAVA PATHANA HIMILA' or "SOWAN' ; This is exactly what BUDDHA said would happen in the future. People go behind magic.. not SEELA. Majority people does not know where to go and they are misled and that is the end.

So you accept that people doesn’t know. The above is what Soma Thero said and he advised not to do so.

The politicians ruin the rest. As if the priests in SL are better than the BUDDHA. They have said what Buddha preached. Thanks for the Kindness of the BUDDHA.

I don’t understand the instincts of the above, but what Soma Thero did was preaching the Doctrine of the Buddha to the people in the most simple and in a most suitable way for people in SL.

All Buddhists who go to the temple know that worshipping devas and offerings to them is not the path to Nirvana.

You are mistaken. They don't know. If you think they knew that then you don't know about SL people.

You think that you are correct. Think, very good.. Otherwise this discussion will not end.

Later in this letter you have stated who Buddhist are. According to that definition yes the Buddhists know it. But what I mean is according to your definition there are only few Buddhist here. So others, (label Buddhists which is the majority) doesn’t know the above factor. We can just gave them up. We must try to make them real Buddhist. That was the attempt of Soma Thero. May be yours also.

As I have stated I think I am correct, you think you are correct, that is not a good way to answer.

es I know. So you say what Soma Thero did was effective if only all the labeled Buddhist in Sri Lanka became real Buddhists? No it is a general factor we know one cannot make all correct. Neither Soma Thero, you, me, not even Lord Buddha could. If so the whole India could have been Arhat by the time of Lord Buddha.

Again the Soma Thero was another factor. That factor can be affective only for a certain extent. Generally if that factor has been affected to a considerable about then we can say he had been affective. So he has been affective more than we thought. He changed the mind of lots of people and make them understand lots of things. It is the truth.

Very weak approach. Failed many times. Disgraced Buddhists on the debate with Ashroff.
His attempts very good.

No, the most suitable and the strongest approach according to the my age that I have ever seen in my life. He did not disgraced on the debate with Asroff. But that debate is one of the very few things I say that Soma Thero and Chamuditha did not do correctly. They were not prepared enough to face Ashrof, the Lawyer. They would have been more prepared.

But later they made that mistake. Anyway this is just one thing. Can’t forget the serve of Soma Thero just because of this.

His attempts were GREAT.

never consented giving fruits to devas. Of course, giving fruits is better than giving cooked fish as a Buddha puja!! (out of the subject)

Out of the subject

Lord Buddha said it many years ago and Buddhists know that.

What Soma Thero said was the things Lord Buddha said and in the most simple way the labled Buddhists can understand. As I earlier said labled Buddhist cannot be ignored and must try to make this Buddhists.

So Buddhist know that but most of the people in Sri Lanka called Buddhists, by their Birth Certificate doesn’t know this.

I do not miss his sermons.

I don’t think so. You listen to him to find mistakes of his sermons and with a pre-conclusive mind. So when you get some statement you must be misinterpreting it.

Simple answer. Let them be there. If you are good bad ones cannot harm you, good ones will bless you. If you do bad and if you are not good, bad ones will harm you. Also it is only one factor. When you do good Karma you get good results and etc.

But it was his Karma coming behind him, wasn’t it? He did not want to get rid of it even though he could do so. He had to and wanted to faced it off.

I am a Vegetarian and am actively involved in work against animal slaughter

I got it. Misunderstanding was eliminated.

Obvious and I agree. Ultimately the same precept was broken but on the way more sin when killing a big one is done. So more sin from elephant and less from maduruwa. Both case killing happens.

Contradictory and hard to believe. You can say so. May be he did, and have made the mistake then no problem. But I don’t feel it that it had been so.

Soma thero said there is no such deva even by name and he challenged..

Again I would like to tell you he said there no such Deva concept in Buddhism with those hands and faces. Take this clearly. As you say you know, I say I know. Because I did not listen to his preaching with objective of finding mistakes.

The Siva described in Buddhism may have had the origin for the Hindus as this god lived in the high mountains.

May be. But these are stories like things. Till we see it ourselves we cannot say much.

You may not..I agree

Ok….we cannot say much.

Even if it does not have there may be such a god/ deva in Himalayas/ Kailasa. How can you say NO?

I don't say no, but who cares? Let him be there.

The moon shines in the darkness. But some creatures in the forest still howl during that time

This is literature.

Without knowing do not criticize.

I have taken the full, you have taken only the half.

The cup is yet empty, so pour more and drink. Cheers!!

No the cup is full. You are looking for dirty in the Cup. There is no dirty. But your mind shows you dirty, as you would like to see dirty in the cup.

He says many things. Different things on different days. For some people it was a fun. Some things he said X is true. After some time he says X BAR (negation of X) is true.

No he didn’t. He was consistent through out the time I knew him.

'All' are Buddhists. And that is why they are called 'Buddhists'..

I think I have talked about this above. So this “All” are very less.

The concept of Gods in Buddhism was taught by the BUDDHA. Soma thero just Re-iterred what ANANTA JINA preached.

All Buddhist monks, and you and me say what Lord Buddha has taught us.

He showed a sign of changing the prevailing Rituals. Stars come and go away. Some stars are yet to come. Still people would look at the stars and talk good/ bad about them.

None of the stars come to stay forever. When time comes any star has to go. What is important is the amount of enlightment that star has given people.

If you can get help from somebody go. Haven't you ever sought help from anybody? If yes, why did you? You are a Buddhist and believe in the Tripple gem. Why did you seek help from any other?

What we expect from a friend, God and the triple Gem are three different things.

Stupid? It is relative.

So what is the relations between the above story and the seeking help from God and Friend?

Very good . Soma thero did well. Did a lot. Who am I? CORRECT and AGREE

I am just a GIHI. That's all. But I have the right to talk the same way as Soma thero, because I am against 'SHRAMANA VESADHARIN'.

You have the right. Also you have the freedom to think.

You study well. Do everything as much as perfect and you obtain the certificate. University gives you the Degree. Is it a help? I think for the amount you study you deserve the certificate. I think this is same as getting blessings from Gods.

You want to go abroad. You need a certificate of a Degree. You go to a friend and say it. Somehow he manage to give you a certificate and let you go abroad. I call this as a Help.

Also, Monks are there to show the path.

Yes, that is what Soma Thero did.

Very well to some extent.

Nope for great extent.

Not about the number of children and Preethi copu

Those really are general things. As you always trying to find the dirt in the cup, you take it the bad way as you want it to see the dirt. You need to get the spirit of what he said about those things.

Abrahmachariya is UNDER Atasil. There are great merits of observing Atasil. You are not doing it everyday as a GIHI.

I know. What I meant was they are there preached by the Buddha and followed (preached to people) by Soma Thero and other monks.

Yes, I agree. Also general understanding is there for any ordinary person to say things in the society.

WHICH means they protect you.

They protect you if you are good. They protect you when you are full of merits and when you give merits to them also.

SO BE GOOD. And show the people to be good.

I do from my extent. Soma Thero did it a lot.

Which means you have help from them.

I am looking for a better word than "help". The reason is the so-called "help" is deserved by the good person. It is not something you get going after.

People may help without anybody requesting. Good persons have the habit of helping.

No contradiction.

Buddhist is the follower of Arya path. He is not an owner or protector of anything. You are building up 'self'

So Buddhist cannot protect anything, right? Even the Buddhism. He just have to follow the path and keep his eyes closed till the Buddhism is getting vanished. That is what happens. In that case you cannot go against Churchism.

Even learning a lot to earn more money is thanhaawa. In laukika way without doing bad jobs it is ok to earn money. In lokoththara way you have to follow the path and attend nibbana.

Again I say someone has to protect this at present and in future. Those are mostly the Sinhalese.

So protect. Very good.

So is there extra part in your body called "Buddhist"?

Again I said that Buddhist only a 'follower' of a path.

Most of the followers of the path are sinhalese. The people who knows most about Buddhism are sinhalese, but most of them are labeled Buddhists. What so ever they are the ones to protect it. Sinhala Buddhists have to take the leadership of protecting it.

If all Buddhist like you say, then we can eliminate the Sinhalese concept, but it is not.

All attempts out of it and making others out of the Samasaric flow is KARUNAWA.

Yes. But Sagna and wedana remains until ANUPADISESA NIBBANA.

Isn’t it all the Panchaskanda remains till Anupadisesa Nibbana? What about Rupa, Sankaara and Wigngnana?

That is why CHANNA ARAHAT cut his throat and suicided without able to bear pain. See CHANNA OPAWADA SUTTA.

See how some politicians have gone to people. Remember Premadasa?

Yes remember….

May the people understand things!!

May you also understand things

He is too harsh as a priest. He used wrong strategy to preach people..

No the most suitable strategy. You can see that he has reached people if you get down to a street. I have never seen such a number of yellow flags in Sri Lanka before.

Number of flags not an indication of the truth. So is he better than Ananda Maitriya?

I agree, number of flags doesn’t indicate. Most important things is whether people follow his path or not. But what so ever the number of flags indicate how much he has gone to the people. How must he has been effective than ever. It is unbelievable. All the streets are shining with the yellow colour. For someone to put a flag he must have at least some honor to him.

He is much more better than Ananda Mayithri. I don’t have words to explain the distance. You cannot underestimate it. It is so unfortunate you are not here to see these things by your self (may be you could not bear it, may be you will feel jealous)

All the media papers have been dominated by the articles about him. We have never seen such a honor to a person before.

I would like if our friends are looking at this discussion can explain the situation at Sri Lanka these days.

Has he preached effectively that THIS IS THE WAY.?

What he mainly said was THIS IS NOT THE WAY

No he has. The above two statements prove that you have not listened to his preaching. While showing this is not the way he has preached a lot about the way. There are many.

Wrong!!

Right way has not been shown. Will discuss in detail , I have no time. There is the path. It is very clear and shining as a gem, but thrown out by priests

Yes thrown out by most priest. Soma Thero was the one who showed that path and lead other priests also to show the path.

Also he has done it so effectively.

No.

It is obvious when you observe the situation in the country.

Can the number of people be an indicator of the Truth. How many people go behind sai baba? How many people went behind Pirith Pan?

I repeat this is different situation for Soma Thero. Soma Thero was not a magician.

He has done a great Job to this country. You cannot underestimate those.

I always admire his attempts and may he attain Nibbana!!

No you don’t. You always criticize his attempts.

Ashok

Back
shamikabsb@hotmail.com