16th December 2003 - Beginning

Hi All,

I do not know all of you, but somehow I got this mail. So cannot keep my moth shut when I see these things. I do not understand the raw things of these discussions exactly. But I will express my points.

Dear Didd

Those who contribute to animal sacrifice (by meat eating) have to careful when making statements that support it. I agree.

Pinwatni badeth thiyenne mas. Ekahanda mas kala bhavana keruwata kamak naha. He said there is no problem of eating meat. He criticized the Mahayanic tradition of living Buddhas

My Point
So if someone said there is no problem of eating meat, why doesn’t he eat the meat of human? Yes some people do so, and why don’t he too. Why can’t he eat his own meat? Why can’t he eat the meat of his father or mother? If there is no problem of eating meat he can eat meet of human also.

He cannot eat his own meat. Because he cannot afford to loose the things belongs to him. It hurts. If he is to eat his mothers’ meat if he is at least an ordinary human he cannot bear the pain of his mother.

So what right he has to say the eating meat of animals is ok. Then what can he say about the pain an animal is getting when it was killed. Animals also have right to live like human and they also feel the pain. I have heard in some religions teachings say that animals are created by the God for human. So why can’t they eat them. Then the question why the God has given the feeling of “Pain” to animal.

When people are trying to justify such things (eating meats) Buddhist has to talk against them. It is not racism. Just talking the visible truth.

Those who criticize Devas may have adverse effects by them What he told was to stand on your own and find yr salvation, without limiting to worshipping Devas.

He said there is no Kataragama deviyo. He said there is no visnu deviyo. He condemned the gods. He challenged the gods. He said we cannot get help from gods. He said not to believe in Astrology.

My Point
Incorrect. As everyone who cannot bear the truth always misinterpret things. What he said was there is no Katharagama Deviyo in Buddhism. There is no Vishnu in Buddhism. He always talked to Buddhists who do things not in Buddhism. According to Buddhism there is a concept of Gods. That is the category, who has done more merits and in a better place. We cannot get help from those. What we can do is give the credit of the merit we do. They get it and bless us. If we are good, if we are with a good heart with pure activities, we can get the better from those blessings.

Astrology is just another science. He did not say not to believe. He said just do not go after that. Astrology is not the only thing decides things of a person.

As a Buddhist you cannot go after Katharagama Deviyo. Because everything mostly depends of what we do. People do not take this and just tell what they want.

First you have to understand what he said. Then only you have to comment. People like you who have not understood the basics of Buddhism and the basics of Soma Theros teachings, always misinterpret things. People who don’t have trust on them selves always go after gods.

Soma Thero always talked to Buddhists and showed their mistakes. When it was done, it is true that he has to talk about other religions also. Cannot help. To protect this noble doctrine he had to do so. If someone doesn’t talk for these things in few years Buddhism will not be there for anyone.

What Soma Thero did was showing the misunderstandings about the Buddhism people had.

Those who support racism may suffer. This is highly controversial. One argument is that if Dutugamunu didn't fight against Tamil "invasion" at that time Buddhism could have been wiped out. (Ex: Afghanistan) Other point is that following those aims (religious or racial clans, family, myself) will distract you from the correct path, hence not becoming "practicing" Buddhist.

He criticized Hindu philosophy. He induced the germ of racism in society. He widened the gap between Buddhists and Hindus. His personal life was totally different. He did not what he preached. Let he be born and protect the Sinhala (so called). We will protect the Buddhist values. Sinhala and Buddhist are two things.
ANYWAY HE DID SOMETHING. THAT I ACCEPT. DOING SOMETHING HAS TO BE DISCUSSED AGAINST DOING THE RIGHT THING

My Point
Yes he did something, and that something affected a lot. So many people who don’t know the real Buddhism and the other people who wanted to buy Buddhists for money to their religions could not bear it. They say that he did something incorrect.

Yes, Sinhala and Buddhism are two things. The Buddhism was not born in Sri Lanka. Lord Buddha was not a Sinhalese. Buddhism is a Universal thing and it belongs to everyone. When it says Sinhala Buddhists some argues that it is racism.

All the above factors are true. But where else you can find pure Buddhism other than with Sri Lankan Sinhalese. Who else protects pure Buddhism other than Sinhalese? No matter Buddhism came from where, the whole world accept that it is a noble doctrine. Having known that we know the Buddhism is not just another religion and when we go deep the noble things in it.

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both natural and spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."
-Albert Einstein

I think you have heard about the above. Albert Einstein is a person accepted by the whole world. Go word by word of his statement.

So such a noble doctrine someone has to protect. Are Indians going to protect it? Americans, Englishman, Muslims, Hindus? Are they going to protect it? No they are not. We have to protect. Sinhalese have to protect it. We have to protect it in an era most of the others are trying to destroy it. So one has to show the things that you cannot get from the other religions to show the things in Buddhism.

The nation to protect Buddhism is Sinhalese. So saying Sinhala Buddhists and taking actions to protect this noble doctrine, you call it racism? You are wrong.

No use of being a labeled Buddhist. We have to protect Pure Therawada Buddhism and have to eliminate the wrong concepts come to it. To do that like Dutugamunu did we have to take actions.

It is not racism, protecting the pure Buddhism for the future and the world. There is nothing wrong with it.

For many Sinhalese Buddhists he was a savior on last two points!
A Buddhist does not belong to a race. He only belongs to the category 'human'

I think I have answered above for this.

We will discuss more when I come on 22nd to SL.

Ashok

17th December 2003 - Reply from asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

I do not know you.

However, what I can say is that Soma Thero and yourselves have not understood the basics of Buddha Teachings. These cannot be spoken by E mails. If you need detail study I may show you why I say with references to Buddhist scripts. I do not want to argue with you and say this is the truth. I can use that time for more benefit.

May read Vasetta sutta (definition of JATHIYA), Maha Samaya Sutta ( who is Visnu), Maha Sihanada Sutta ( who is Sanan kumara OR Skanda Kumara ), Madyamika Darshan / Mula madyamakarika/ Saddarmapundarika (to know separation between Mahayanic way) / Lamkavatara sutta, Amganda sutta on meat eating...to know more.

WITH A PRECONCLUSIVE MIND IT MAY BE DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND CERTAIN SENSITIVE BUT COMPLEX ISSUES ON BUDDHIST WAY

May you protect the SINHALESE BUDDHISTS!!

17th December 2003 - Reply to asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

I also do not know you. But feel that you are also a typical person who runs aways when real questions are made. You are the one who doesn't know basics. Before looking into those Suttas you try to understand the basics.

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read. Those are not the important things.

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

Buddhism never says to pray Gods. It is not that Soma Thero said that there is no Gods. What he said was there are Gods, but they are not the ones with lots of hands and faces like Katharagama and Vishnu. Why don't you understand this. You are the person with preconclusive mind. If you have valid points take them up.

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

All the other religion people things about their religion and protect it. But when Buddhists trying to do it people like you say that it is racism. You say Buddhism is not belong to us. So you want let anyone do anything to that and keep watching till it getting destroyed. That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

If you can answer my things. Also it is true that these cannot be spoken through emails (may be you are making it an excuse). But you and I know that there is no practicle possiblity to meet. Also we can discuss these things through emails.

please do not run away. Come to the points.

Dearest Friend

These are my replies. Thanks for giving me a chance.

I also do not know you. But feel that you are also a typical person who runs aways when real questions are made. You are the one who doesn't know basics. Before looking into those Suttas you try to understand the basics.

I feel that you are a theoretical Buddhist who have not even attempted to on the path. You typically lack in practicality. Basics are taken from the Three baskets. To understand basics you have to understand the core. Existing basics are interpretations and people unknowingly think as basics. Basics though the name applies goes a long way. The basics in Buddhism are the Ariya Attangika magga-Dana/Seela/ Bhavana; Seela/ Samadhi/ Pagna; Sapta visuddhi/ Satara satipattana etc. At the lowest level it can be simplified to pancha seela. Pancha seela too at the narrowest definitions gives a completely different interpretation. On this we can discuss for days and seems no point.. Start going in the said path for some time with prevailing basics then you will find that these basics are wrong

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

You have misunderstood. The concepts of trinity in Hinduism did not exist during Buddha's time. The existing religion was Vedantism more generally it was Brahmanism. It is completely different from today's Hinduism. Read history of Hinduism. During that time the main names relating to the trinity are all in Buddhist scriptures. Buddha never told to go behind them. He said about their existence. There more than enough evidence that there are devas by these said names. Even Shiva, refer to anguttara nikaya where Siva Dev Puth comes and asks questions from Buddha. Buddha said don't go behind them. Clear.

Refer to skanda purana and relationship with king Mahanama and Dutugemunu. You cannot challenge the existence even by name. Let Hindus represent them by many hands/ faces . Why we are worried? If you know the concept fine. But don't challenge even by name because there is research done and most critics have concluded the relation in Buddhist scripts. Lead the life as Buddha said and gods with protect you (which means they can help you!!) Read Metta sutta/ parinibbana sutta on sapta aparihana dharma of Lichchavis.how gods can help you (but they cannot change karma). Read Milinda pragna how dreams may be shown by gods to people of future events. Also you can get things done through gods, it is a special science. SO Without practicising SEELA even monks with Athma Dusti cannot understand certain things. So people go behind them..

Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Same. Try to understand karma. Learn that karma can be changed by you. By your great efforts. It is pointless to pray for triple gem. Go on the path. Niyama dharma is broadly the explanation of the universe. It has nothing to do with what we discussed. Also karma is not the root cause of everything. Karma only fall in the in the explanation of causality. There are certain things call Ahetuka Vipath. Still I feel I am wasting my time with heaps of official work with me

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read.

            I have not spoken about jataka stories. Still there are core concepts we can get which is invaluable.

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

If you want to argue, fine. But you will go nowhere without practicing. I have been arguing directly and I have the capacity to do so. There is no problem.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

I have been working in this stream of activities for long time in SL. I know all the in and outs of the Buddhist monks. Don't try to teach me. I have been actively involved in these against churchnism. The strategy to safeguard Buddhism is been changing. Now the Temple of Kandy get many to Robes from the tamil race (ask them if you don't know). We have to have Buddhist monks from this race. Buddhism cannot be owned by any race. Racism is on the verge of collapse (Sinhala Buddhist concept- only correct path is Theravada?? Only saviors of Buddhism are the Sinhala race..?? nonsence. Was dharma asoka a Sinhalese, was dalai lama a Sinhalese? Was Buddha Gosa acharya a Sinhalese? When Buddhism was in extinct thanks to Miyanmar for sending Sangha to re-establish Buddhism). Race -Jatiya has been clearly described by Buddha in Sutta Nipata, Vasetta Sutta..

I have been working on propagating Buddhism in various ways. The path and the mentality of most of you have to be changed, unless Hinduism/ Chris tianity would overgrow in SL.

Buddhism never says to pray Gods. It is not that Soma Thero said that there is no Gods. What he said was there are Gods, but they are not the ones with lots of hands and faces like Katharagama and Vishnu. Why don't you understand this. You are the person with preconclusive mind. If you have valid points take them up.

I have answered this

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

Again, baseless/ invalid statements. Still I feel I have spent my valuable time which I could have more effectively used for the betterment of Religion.

All the other religion people things about their religion and protect it. But when Buddhists trying to do it people like you say that it is racism. You say Buddhism is not belong to us. So you want let anyone do anything to that and keep watching till it getting destroyed.

Buddhism does not belong to us. It belongs to the whole world. You are trying to own it. Mage'ya , Ape' ya,  , Mage jathiya'ya  which was called by the BUDDHA as ATHMAVADA..

As your Scientist says, ( Einstein knows very little; see Mula madyama karika- by Nagarjuna in Mahayana sect and Brahma Sutta in Hindusm to find about Relativity theory preached years ago...) Buddhism is a cosmic religion. It is the explanation of the whole universe. It is a philosophy as well as a religion.

That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

Correct what Buddha said was that

Mahaneni, anagataye budusasuna vinasha wane mitya dustikayan visin novei.

Mage sasane shramanayan athin mai.

Owun ma wadala deya novadala hatiyatath

Nowadala deya wadala hatiyatath deshana karanawa.

That is what SOMA thero has done!!

If you can answer my things. Also it is true that these cannot be spoken through emails (may be you are making it an excuse). But you and I know that there is no practicle possiblity to meet. Also we can discuss these things through emails.

Why not.. I am coming next Monday.

I may not be so good as the Buddha argued with Sacchchaka/ or like Nagasena araht argued with king Milindu. But I will still destroy your false perception.  But do you think it is the way to find the truth? You are mistaken my friend

please do not run away. Come to the points.

            MAHANENI MAGE DHARMAYA VASUNE NOMA BABALAI

            NO VASUNE MA BABALAI

Read Buddhist scripts. Practice your way. Overthrow Sathkaya dushti (Athma vada), And Attain the Supreme state of Nibbana.

            May you be overwhelmed with compassion!!!

Ashok

17th December 2003 - Reply to asoka.fonseka@almarai.com 

See Text in this color

Dearest Friend

These are my replies. Thanks for giving me a chance.

I also do not know you. But feel that you are also a typical person who runs aways when real questions are made. You are the one who doesn't know basics. Before looking into those Suttas you try to understand the basics.

I feel that you are a theoretical Buddhist who have not even attempted to on the path.

We always think we are correct. You tell me that I am theoretical. I tell you that you are so. Anyway not that important.

I am agreeing with you about the most you have stated in this mail. I think you have misunderstood Soma Thero and me. Or there must be some other reason for you to dislike Soma Thero. I find that there are no much conflicts between your sayings and Soma Theros sayings. It’s like 50-50 which is possible in any general case.

You typically lack in practicality. No Basics are taken from the Three baskets.

I agree

To understand basics you have to understand the core. Existing basics are interpretations and people unknowingly think as basics. Basics though the name applies goes a long way. The basics in Buddhism are the Ariya Attangika magga-Dana/Seela/ Bhavana; Seela/ Samadhi/ Pagna; Sapta visuddhi/ Satara satipattana etc. At the lowest level it can be simplified to pancha seela. Pancha seela too at the narrowest definitions gives a completely different interpretation.

I agree.

On this we can discuss for days and seems no point.. Start going in the said path for some time with prevailing basics then you will find that these basics are wrong

Also, It is not that eating meat is violating the first precept. I or Soma Thero or did not say so. Also eating meat is not a Sin. But if you can stop eating meat then you might me helping to save one animals life in a round way. Also people have no right to kill animals for their meat. That was what I meant before.

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

You have misunderstood. The concepts of trinity in Hinduism did not exist during Buddha's time.

Absolutely and I agree with it 100%. I don’t say that those Devas came to Buddism from Hinduism.

The existing religion was Vedantism more generally it was Brahmanism. It is completely different from today's Hinduism. Read history of Hinduism. During that time the main names relating to the trinity are all in Buddhist scriptures. Buddha never told to go behind them. He said about their existence.

Yes

There more than enough evidence that there are devas by these said names. Even Shiva, refer to anguttara nikaya where Siva Dev Puth comes and asks questions from Buddha. Buddha said don't go behind them. Clear.

Yes, but how do you say the God Shiva whom is prayed by Hindu is the same of Siva Dev Puth. As you said Buddha said not to go behind them. That is exactly the same Soma Thero told to these people. So what is your problem? No matter those Devas are same or not, they way Hindus take them and the way Buddhists take them is different. When Buddhists take them as Hindus do, that is what Soma Thero was talking about.

I feel that you haven’t heard Soma Theros preaching.

Refer to skanda purana and relationship with king Mahanama and Dutugemunu. You cannot challenge the existence even by name.

No I am not. I am not challenging the existence. Can you understand? I am challenging about Buddhist people going after them.

Let Hindus represent them by many hands/ faces . Why we are worried? Absolutely

If you know the concept fine. But don't challenge even by name because there is research done and most critics have concluded the relation in Buddhist scripts. Lead the life as Buddha said and gods with protect you (which means they can help you!! )

In this case yes they protect you. But you have to say how my friend. Reason is people misunderstood. Not by giving Pujaa Watti. Not by praying. But by good behavior of our own. By doing merits and giving the merit to the Gods also. Then they bless us. If we have merits with us we can get those blessings.

But when something happens (when sick), just because you go and pray for Shiva you cannot get anything. The god there is the Doctor. There is no conflict.

Read Metta sutta/ parinibbana sutta on sapta aparihana dharma of Lichchavis.how gods can help you (but they cannot change karma).

That is my point some Karmas can be changed some are not. Also Karma is not the only thing. (Dhitta Damma Wedaneeya, Upa Pajja Wdaneeya, Aparaapareeya and Ahosi Karma also there)

Read Milinda pragna how dreams may be shown by gods to people of future events. Also you can get things done through gods, it is a special science.

Yes those are specials sciences. Not only by Gods, but also by Bhutha Pretha also. Those are science. Buddha said not to go after those. What Soam Thero told also same.

We don’t need to worship them. If we are good they bless and help us. Just because we worship them they don’t help us. But in other religions they worship them and think that they get things from the gods. It’s ok for other religions people but not for us.

SO Without practicising SEELA even monks with Athma Dusti cannot understand certain things. So people go behind them..

Absolutely. That is what I am telling over and over again and also Soma Thero. So there is no conflict. You don’t need to ask help from Gods. If you practice SEELA then you get help.

 Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Same. Try to understand karma. Learn that karma can be changed by you. By your great efforts.

I know and I agree.

It is pointless to pray for triple gem.

Yes, so what is the conflict? This is what I say. Even to triple Gem we don’t have to pay. Sarana means following the path.

Go on the path. Niyama dharma is broadly the explanation of the universe. It has nothing to do with what we discussed. Also karma is not the root cause of everything.

Why I got Niyama is to show that Karama is not the only thing. All these things come when deciding something.

 Karma only fall in the in the explanation of causality. There are certain things call Ahetuka Vipath.

I know and I agree.

Still I feel I am wasting my time with heaps of official work with me

I too have lots of official work here, but I think these discussions are very much needed. For a moment think that I am a person who knows nothing. In that case you are lighting me up. Then you are like giving me a Dharma Dhana. Then if you say you are wasting your time it is too bad. Anyway who ever is wrong or correct these discussion are needed.

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read.

            I have not spoken about jataka stories. Still there are core concepts we can get which is invaluable.

Ok.      

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

If you want to argue, fine. But you will go nowhere without practicing. I have been arguing directly and I have the capacity to do so. There is no problem.

Good. In fact I would like to use the word discussion.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

I have been working in this stream of activities for long time in SL. I know all the in and outs of the Buddhist monks. Don't try to teach me. I have been actively involved in these against churchnism. The strategy to safeguard Buddhism is been changing. Now the Temple of Kandy get many to Robes from the tamil race (ask them if you don't know).

Great, and are you a person we know? Also I appreciate you effort and I also want to support it from my capacity.

We have to have Buddhist monks from this race. Buddhism cannot be owned by any race.

I know and I agree.

Racism is on the verge of collapse (Sinhala Buddhist concept- only correct path is Theravada?? Only saviors of Buddhism are the Sinhala race..?? nonsence. Was dharma asoka a Sinhalese, was dalai lama a Sinhalese? Was Buddha Gosa acharya a Sinhalese? When Buddhism was in extinct thanks to Miyanmar for sending Sangha to re-establish Buddhism). Race -Jatiya has been clearly described by Buddha in Sutta Nipata, Vasetta Sutta..

What you say is correct. In that case Buddhism was not born in SL. Then this completely something out from us. Your examples are long time ago. (Asoka, Dalali Lama…..). Not only Sri Lankans are left. There may be rare cases abroad, but not in huge manner.

I again say saving Buddhism by Sinhalese is not Racism.

I have been working on propagating Buddhism in various ways. The path and the mentality of most of you have to be changed, unless Hinduism/ Christianity would overgrow in SL.

Yep, but not mine, but most of the people.

Buddhism never says to pray Gods. It is not that Soma Thero said that there is no Gods. What he said was there are Gods, but they are not the ones with lots of hands and faces like Katharagama and Vishnu. Why don't you understand this. You are the person with preconclusive mind. If you have valid points take them up.

I have answered this

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

Again, baseless/ invalid statements. Still I feel I have spent my valuable time which I could have more effectively used for the betterment of Religion.

If you think so it is too bad, as you want to express things only to the people accepts you, not to the ones who says something against your ideas.

All the other religion people things about their religion and protect it. But when Buddhists trying to do it people like you say that it is racism. You say Buddhism is not belong to us. So you want let anyone do anything to that and keep watching till it getting destroyed.

Buddhism does not belong to us. It belongs to the whole world.

I know and I agree, but now we have the responsibility to protect. In earlier the person who has the tooth relic owned the Crown. It says that SL has some big responsibility.

You are trying to own it. Mage'ya , Ape' ya,  , Mage jathiya'ya  which was called by the BUDDHA as ATHMAVADA..

No I am not. Niether Soma Thero. Trying to protect it. Also I know what Athma Waadaya is. Ok then according to that if all the monks went to the forest to meditate and attend Nibbana, so who is going to protect this. Desire (Thanhaawa) is there till you attend Nibbana. If you are propagating Buddhism it is also the desire. But you have to do it. Even to attend Nibban you must have the desire to attend it (Thanhaawa nathi karanna thanhaawa nathi kireeme thanhaawa thiyenna ona)

So mamathwaya is there. What is wrongs is if it is there too much. So you have to have limits. Protecting Buddhism is not Mamathwaya.

As your Scientist says, ( Einstein knows very little; see Mula madyama karika- by Nagarjuna in Mahayana sect and Brahma Sutta in Hindusm to find about Relativity theory preached years ago...) Buddhism is a cosmic religion. It is the explanation of the whole universe. It is a philosophy as well as a religion.

Here also I have to say something. I have stated the name of Einstein, just to show that even those people have talked about these. But as you say compared to things in Buddhism Einstein is no one. Also most of the scientific things people find present have been found by Buddha long time ago.

Also Science is something evolve by breaking old theories. So equaling Science and Buddhism is not something not done as Buddhism is an Universal truth.

That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

Correct what Buddha said was that

Mahaneni, anagataye budusasuna vinasha wane mitya dustikayan visin novei.

Mage sasane shramanayan athin mai.

Owun ma wadala deya novadala hatiyatath

Nowadala deya wadala hatiyatath deshana karanawa.

That is what SOMA thero has done!!

No you are wrong. I can’t understand why do you say so. I think you haven’t heard his preaching completely or else you have some other problem with him.

If you can answer my things. Also it is true that these cannot be spoken through emails (may be you are making it an excuse). But you and I know that there is no practicle possiblity to meet. Also we can discuss these things through emails.  

 Why not.. I am coming next Monday.

I may not be so good as the Buddha argued with Sacchchaka/ or like Nagasena araht argued with king Milindu. But I will still destroy your false perception.  But do you think it is the way to find the truth? You are mistaken my friend

No it is not the correct way. No point of arguing. That is why I said I don’t want to say this is an argument but discussion.

please do not run away. Come to the points.

            MAHANENI MAGE DHARMAYA VASUNE NOMA BABALAI

            NO VASUNE MA BABALAI

Read Buddhist scripts. Practice your way. Overthrow Sathkaya dushti (Athma vada), And Attain the Supreme state of Nibbana.

            May you be overwhelmed with compassion!!!

            Thank you!

Reply from asoka.fonseka@almarai.com

OK fine. SEEMS to be on track now.
Yes will start discussion. 
Here it begins!!
See the lettering below:

Dearest Friend

These are my replies. Thanks for giving me a chance.

I also do not know you. But feel that you are also a typical person who runs aways when real questions are made. You are the one who doesn't know basics. Before looking into those Suttas you try to understand the basics.

I feel that you are a theoretical Buddhist who have not even attempted to on the path.

We always think we are correct. You tell me that I am theoretical. I tell you that you are so. Anyway not that important.

Yes
                                                               

I am agreeing with you about the most you have stated in this mail. I think you have misunderstood Soma Thero and me. Or there must be some other reason for you to dislike Soma Thero. I find that there are no much conflicts between your sayings and Soma Theros sayings. It's like 50-50 which is possible in any general case.

I know Soma Thero well. I know also his history. I know also his life. I know a lot which don't want to unveil because I don't like other religious sects knowing about it. His work as a social refiner as I call is great. Well, the points he stressed on is not much important to me. All Buddhists who go to the temple know that worshipping devas and offerings to them is not the path to Nirvana. But they may have problems(weak mind) and the psychology of humans are that if there is a LIVING entity they trust on it more than the Buddha who has passed away. It is only a temporary relievement for them. Also they go to the Buddha shrine as well. There is no fuss to create. If you need a help you may go to a friend. Similarly as Gods live by incense, smell of fruits etc. they could help if you make a offering. But according the Doctrine, the most valuable offering is the transfer of merits by an act like Ata visi Buddha puja, compassion meditation, Vipassana meditation so on (Abhidamma pitaka ranks the meritorial order). Soma thero challenged that you cannot get help from Devas. I am stressing this point because I have had many experiences on this. I never worship Devas (of course if you like you may). But I know that they could help humans. There are innumerable cases in Buddhist scripts where Devas have helped humans.  I do strongly believe and experience it. If somebody tries to negate it and throw harsh words on Gods remember that there could be adverse effects.
                                                                                    

You typically lack in practicality. No Basics are taken from the Three baskets.

I agree

To understand basics you have to understand the core. Existing basics are interpretations and people unknowingly think as basics. Basics though the name applies goes a long way. The basics in Buddhism are the Ariya Attangika magga-Dana/Seela/ Bhavana; Seela/ Samadhi/ Pagna; Sapta visuddhi/ Satara satipattana etc. At the lowest level it can be simplified to pancha seela. Pancha seela too at the narrowest definitions gives a completely different interpretation.

I agree.

On this we can discuss for days and seems no point.. Start going in the said path for some time with prevailing basics then you will find that these basics are wrong

Also, It is not that eating meat is violating the first precept. I or Soma Thero or did not say so. Also eating meat is not a Sin. But if you can stop eating meat then you might me helping to save one animals life in a round way. Also people have no right to kill animals for their meat. That was what I meant before.

                        Meat is carcase. First question is can humans eat carcase? Will a Buddha eat carcase??

Manasa usas lesa wediya haki bavin 'manussa' nam ve

Again the narrow definition of the 1^st precept- I don't kill live creatures??

A more broader definition.. OK I don't kill I support killing. How? By eating.

The broader definition is that ' refrain from KILLING, refrain from instructing OTHERS to KILL, refrain from supporting (meat eating), stay happily in slaughter field looking at it (see APADANA pali how Buddha suffered from a head ache due to such an incident in the previous birth- PRAVURTHI VIPAKA), refrain from praising the slaughter..

SEE HOW IT GOES

Read JEEVAKA sutta on TRIKOTIKA PARISUDDHA MANSHA, read Lankavatara sutta- mahayana sect, read Matsya jataka, read Anguttara Nikaya CHatuka Nipatha on many such cases...

Best part is that you bless 'may all beings be happy' . Fish is also a creature and eat the innocent creature for lunch. What a dilemma!

The samsara so long and all creatures present have been our mother/fathers/ sisters/ loved ones... so we eat their flesh! Absurd..

The name Vishnu or Skanda Kumar is not the matter. When things come in those Suttas goes near those names you are making them same.

The name is not the matter. The concept matters. There are no Gods in Buddhism has lots of hands and faces. The Vishnu comes in Buddhism (if I go by the name), is not the one in Hindu Deva concept.

You have misunderstood. The concepts of trinity in Hinduism did not exist during Buddha's time.

Absolutely and I agree with it 100%. I don't say that those Devas came to Buddism from Hinduism.

The existing religion was Vedantism more generally it was Brahmanism. It is completely different from today's Hinduism. Read history of Hinduism. During that time the main names relating to the trinity are all in Buddhist scriptures. Buddha never told to go behind them. He said about their existence.

Yes

There more than enough evidence that there are devas by these said names. Even Shiva, refer to anguttara nikaya where Siva Dev Puth comes and asks questions from Buddha. Buddha said don't go behind them. Clear.

Yes, but how do you say the God Shiva whom is prayed by Hindu is the same of Siva Dev Puth. As you said Buddha said not to go behind them. That is exactly the same Soma Thero told to these people. So what is your problem? No matter those Devas are same or not, they way Hindus take them and the way Buddhists take them is different. When Buddhists take them as Hindus do, that is what Soma Thero was talking about.

I feel that you haven't heard Soma Theros preaching.

I said that during Buddhas time there was no Shiva concept in Hinduism. Most sects emerged lately. What I say is that Siva concept in Hinduism is different. The Siva described in Buddhism may have had the origin for the Hindus as this god lived in the high mountains. Even if it does not have there may be such a god/ deva in Himalayas / Kailasa.  How can you say NO? Without knowing do not criticize. Soma thero criticized and said NO. The same experience the Hindus get from making offerings to him may be experienced by Buddhists offering to him. Let them get the help if they could. But it is temporary and it is not the path to nirvana. All know that.  If you can get help from somebody go. Haven't you ever sought help from anybody? If yes, why did you? You are a Buddhist and believe in the Tripple gem. Why did you seek help from any other?

Refer to skanda purana and relationship with king Mahanama and Dutugemunu. You cannot challenge the existence even by name.

No I am not. I am not challenging the existence. Can you understand? I am challenging about Buddhist people going after them.

I hope you get a chance to experience some things in the future. Let people get help if they need.

Also, Monks are there to show the path. What they know about family problems, child birth, how to make birth control etc..?  The robe is a symbol that he has understood the suffering of samsara and he is on his way. Not to discuss family/ women problems on public as Soma thero.

Let Hindus represent them by many hands/ faces . Why we are worried? Absolutely

If you know the concept fine. But don't challenge even by name because there is research done and most critics have concluded the relation in Buddhist scripts. Lead the life as Buddha said and gods with protect you (which means they can help you!! )

In this case yes they protect you. But you have to say how my friend. Reason is people misunderstood. Not by giving Pujaa Watti. Not by praying. But by good behavior of our own. By doing merits and giving the merit to the Gods also. Then they bless us. If we have merits with us we can get those blessings.

                                Yes.

But when something happens (when sick), just because you go and pray for Shiva you cannot get anything. The god there is the Doctor. There is no conflict.

Again you are challenging. Depends on what kind of ailment. Have you ever heard of Yaksha , Bhutha Dosa? Do you ever have experience Gurukam? See Brahmajala Sutta deega Nikaya for such sciences.

Read Metta sutta/ parinibbana sutta on sapta aparihana dharma of Lichchavis.how gods can help you (but they cannot change karma).

That is my point some Karmas can be changed some are not. Also Karma is not the only thing. (Dhitta Damma Wedaneeya, Upa Pajja Wdaneeya, Aparaapareeya and Ahosi Karma also there)

 There 16 facets of karma. How the reaction is by place, by time, by birth , by nature each 4.

Thatagatayani, mata nam hondatama karmaya watahenawa

Anandaya, ese nokiyanna. Karmaya itha gamburui. Avabodhayata itha dushkarai...

Read Milinda pragna how dreams may be shown by gods to people of future events. Also you can get things done through gods, it is a special science.

Yes those are specials sciences. Not only by Gods, but also by Bhutha Pretha also. Those are science. Buddha said not to go after those. What Soam Thero told also same.

We don't need to worship them. If we are good they bless and help us. Just because we worship them they don't help us. But in other religions they worship them and think that they get things from the gods. It's ok for other religions people but not for us.

Yes

SO Without practicising SEELA even monks with Athma Dusti cannot understand certain things. So people go behind them..

Absolutely. That is what I am telling over and over again and also Soma Thero. So there is no conflict. You don't need to ask help from Gods. If you practice SEELA then you get help.

Yes. They would help you whether you ask or not. WHICH means they protect you. Which means you have help from them.

 Buddhist doesn't have any other sarana than Theruwan. Just try to understand the concepts of Karma and the pancha niyaama dharma. Look into the Patichcha Samuppada and the Buddhas teaching og mind.

Same. Try to understand karma. Learn that karma can be changed by you. By your great efforts.

I know and I agree.

It is pointless to pray for triple gem.

Yes, so what is the conflict? This is what I say. Even to triple Gem we don't have to pay. Sarana means following the path.

There are many interpretations on Buddha/ Dhamma/ Sanga saranei. See Anguttara nikaya

Go on the path. Niyama dharma is broadly the explanation of the universe. It has nothing to do with what we discussed. Also karma is not the root cause of everything.

Why I got Niyama is to show that Karama is not the only thing. All these things come when deciding something.

 Karma only fall in the in the explanation of causality. There are certain things call Ahetuka Vipath.

I know and I agree.

Still I feel I am wasting my time with heaps of official work with me

I too have lots of official work here, but I think these discussions are very much needed. For a moment think that I am a person who knows nothing. In that case you are lighting me up. Then you are like giving me a Dharma Dhana. Then if you say you are wasting your time it is too bad. Anyway who ever is wrong or correct these discussion are needed.

The waves of the ocean flow to the shore. It breaks into parts. And new waves emerge from the same water. There is no end to questions and arguments/ discussions., unless there is realization. At the point of realization there is calmness and bliss and no more waves would rise. It is hard to describe this state. At this juncture the description of 'self' is void. What more can be about 'sinhalese- buddhist' concept?

Most of the literature things are not the important things. People create those Jathaka stories nice to make other read.

            I have not spoken about jataka stories. Still there are core concepts we can get which is invaluable.

Ok.      

Also benefit of most of the people I would like you can take the matters up from those Suttas. Do not run away by telling the names of those Suttas.

If you want to argue, fine. But you will go nowhere without practicing. I have been arguing directly and I have the capacity to do so. There is no problem.

Good. In fact I would like to use the word discussion.

Also you have run away from most of the things I have stated about racism and protecting the buddhism and etc. It is not just about Devas.

I have been working in this stream of activities for long time in SL. I know all the in and outs of the Buddhist monks. Don't try to teach me. I have been actively involved in these against churchnism. The strategy to safeguard Buddhism is been changing. Now the Temple of Kandy get many to Robes from the tamil race (ask them if you don't know).

Great, and are you a person we know? Also I appreciate you effort and I also want to support it from my capacity.

We have to have Buddhist monks from this race. Buddhism cannot be owned by any race.

I know and I agree.

Racism is on the verge of collapse (Sinhala Buddhist concept- only correct path is Theravada?? Only saviors of Buddhism are the Sinhala race..?? nonsence. Was dharma asoka a Sinhalese, was dalai lama a Sinhalese? Was Buddha Gosa acharya a Sinhalese? When Buddhism was in extinct thanks to Miyanmar for sending Sangha to re-establish Buddhism). Race -Jatiya has been clearly described by Buddha in Sutta Nipata, Vasetta Sutta..

What you say is correct. In that case Buddhism was not born in SL. Then this completely something out from us. Your examples are long time ago. (Asoka, Dalali Lama.....). Not only Sri Lankans are left. There may be rare cases abroad, but not in huge manner.

I again say saving Buddhism by Sinhalese is not Racism.

Save Buddhism as a Buddhist. I don't know whether I am Sinhalese. How can I know? Is there any extra part in my body which tamils do not have? Or is it just because I speak that language? Or is it because I have it in my B/certificate?

I have been working on propagating Buddhism in various ways. The path and the mentality of most of you have to be changed, unless Hinduism/ Christianity would overgrow in SL.

Yep, but not mine, but most of the people.

Buddhism never says to pray Gods. It is not that Soma Thero said that there is no Gods. What he said was there are Gods, but they are not the ones with lots of hands and faces like Katharagama and Vishnu. Why don't you understand this. You are the person with preconclusive mind. If you have valid points take them up.

I have answered this

People like you always run out saying things like "I can use that time for more benefit", you don't have valid points.

Again, baseless/ invalid statements. Still I feel I have spent my valuable time which I could have more effectively used for the betterment of Religion.

If you think so it is too bad, as you want to express things only to the people accepts you, not to the ones who says something against your ideas.

 OK, now I discuss with you.

All the other religion people things about their religion and protect it. But when Buddhists trying to do it people like you say that it is racism. You say Buddhism is not belong to us. So you want let anyone do anything to that and keep watching till it getting destroyed.

Buddhism does not belong to us. It belongs to the whole world.

I know and I agree, but now we have the responsibility to protect. In earlier the person who has the tooth relic owned the Crown. It says that SL has some big responsibility.

You are trying to own it. Mage'ya , Ape' ya,  , Mage jathiya'ya  which was called by the BUDDHA as ATHMAVADA..

No I am not. Niether Soma Thero. Trying to protect it. Also I know what Athma Waadaya is. Ok then according to that if all the monks went to the forest to meditate and attend Nibbana, so who is going to protect this. Desire (Thanhaawa) is there till you attend Nibbana. If you are propagating Buddhism it is also the desire. But you have to do it. Even to attend Nibban you must have the desire to attend it (Thanhaawa nathi karanna thanhaawa nathi kireeme thanhaawa thiyenna ona)

WRONG. Desire is defined as the attachments to worldly things. (KAMA/ BHAVA/VI-BHAVA)

 All attempts out of it and making others out of the Samasaric flow is KARUNAWA.

Getting out of Samsara is an attempt to quit out of suffering (having realized it) . Nibbana is this end-state. It is the understanding of suffering and the struggle to get out of it. There is no desire there and is only craving.

Somebody is giving wrong interpretations to you. Again clergy with no path I assume..

So mamathwaya is there. What is wrongs is if it is there too much. So you have to have limits. Protecting Buddhism is not Mamathwaya.

Once you have crossed the river, will you ever walk the Paruwa on your head? This is for arahats.

For us, protect Buddhism in a peaceful way. Learn dharma and guide people directly, but practice it!!

As your Scientist says, ( Einstein knows very little; see Mula madyama karika- by Nagarjuna in Mahayana sect and Brahma Sutta in Hindusm to find about Relativity theory preached years ago...) Buddhism is a cosmic religion. It is the explanation of the whole universe. It is a philosophy as well as a religion.

Here also I have to say something. I have stated the name of Einstein, just to show that even those people have talked about these. But as you say compared to things in Buddhism Einstein is no one. Also most of the scientific things people find present have been found by Buddha long time ago.

Also Science is something evolve by breaking old theories. So equaling Science and Buddhism is not something not done as Buddhism is an Universal truth.

 YES

That is why Lord Buddha said (I think you are a Buddhist) people from the same will try to destroy this doctrine.

Correct what Buddha said was that

Mahaneni, anagataye budusasuna vinasha wane mitya dustikayan visin novei.

Mage sasane shramanayan athin mai.

Owun ma wadala deya novadala hatiyatath

Nowadala deya wadala hatiyatath deshana karanawa.

That is what SOMA thero has done!!

No you are wrong. I can't understand why do you say so. I think you haven't heard his preaching completely or else you have some other problem with him.

                        He is too harsh as a priest. He used wrong strategy to preach people..

                        Has he preached effectively that THIS IS THE WAY.?

What he mainly said was THIS IS NOT THE WAY